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- Oct 9, 202529 min
Google Ads for Property Managers: Expert Insights from Maddie Lushington
Google Ads can be a powerful growth engine for residential property management marketing. But for many business owners, it’s also a source of frustration. Misconceptions, unrealistic expectations, and the complexity of campaign management often leave property managers saying, “Google Ads just doesn’t work for me.” On The Property Management Show podcast, Google Ads expert Maddie Lushington shared candid insights from her five years of running Google Ads campaigns for property managers across North America. Her stories reveal why some campaigns fail, what realistic success looks like, and how property managers can avoid common pitfalls when marketing to property owners. Why Property Managers Struggle with Google Ads Many property managers walk into Google Ads expecting instant results: a certain number of leads, a specific cost per door, or guaranteed outcomes based on what a peer mentioned at a conference. Maddie has seen this play out countless times. I also recalled overhearing property managers comparing results over lunch at an industry event. One person bragged about generating dozens of leads in Florida, while another lamented that ads never worked for them in a smaller market. On the surface, these conversations sound like benchmarks. In reality, they’re stories shaped by geography, competition, and budget. Comparing success in Florida to a rural town in Arkansas is like comparing apples to oranges. The market dictates what’s possible. This misconception — that performance can be copy-pasted from one market to another — is one of the biggest reasons property managers feel let down by ads. What Defines Success in Google Ads Campaigns for Property Managers Beyond Cost Per Lead Leads and cost per lead remain the metrics everyone talks about, but Maddie encouraged property managers to widen their definition of success. Impressions and clicks reveal whether your brand is showing up consistently. More importantly, looking closely at the type of clicks matters just as much as the number. Owner Leads vs. Tenant Clicks This is where nuance comes in. Owners and tenants often use almost identical search terms. That means even the most carefully crafted campaigns will capture some tenant clicks. Maddie was quick to point out that this isn’t a failure — it’s simply the nature of how search works. Her team’s role is to constantly refine campaigns to keep the balance tilted toward owner leads. She stressed the importance of daily click volume as a leading indicator. If a campaign generates five to ten clicks a day, we know we’re creating enough opportunities for owner leads to come through. Not every click will be perfect, but the math starts working in your favor. Can You Trust AI Tools for Google Ads in Property Management? Automation and AI sound appealing. Google has rolled out tools that promise to “optimize” campaigns with little human input. But Maddie and I both warned against over-reliance on AI in property management marketing, and here’s why: The Nuance Problem You Can’t Ignore I pu
- Jun 26, 202518 min
Maximize Property Management Revenue Part 3: Educating Owners and the Misuse of AI
The Property Management Show returns with Part 3 of Marie Tepman’s discussion with Todd Ortscheid, which builds off the earlier discussions of fee-maxing and choosing the right revenue model. In the conclusion of this series, we focus on the importance of education when it comes to property management marketing, and how to use AI to boost productivity without losing the human touch. Property Management Marketing Starts with Content Marketing To someone who does not know the property management industry, the idea that a company like Fourandhalf would market exclusively to property management companies seems incredibly niche. But, the industry is big. And, the majority of rentals in America are not even managed professionally. Marie was shocked to learn that 10 years ago when she first got started in property management marketing, and perhaps even more shocking is that this is still true today. Ten years later, many rentals are still not professionally managed. This tells us that education continues to be necessary. It has to come first. Property managers can educate landlords that there’s value in hiring a professional management team for their rentals. Not only does it save time and prevent errors, they can make more money. A lot of self-managing landlords, as you know, don’t want to pay someone a percentage of their rent. But, that’s because they often don’t realize that a professional will help them earn more money, not only when it comes to rental pricing, but also with expertise and even the ancillary fees we’ve been discussing. Education is an under-rated part of marketing. It’s not just having a well-trafficked website and running digital ads. Those strategies help to capture the bottom of the sales funnel by reaching the people who already know what a property manager does. They’re making decisions based on prices, services, and other specifics. They know what they’re looking for. But what about the landlords and the property owners who don’t know? There’s an opportunity to capture the people who are looking for solutions. They might be having a tough time managing their own property. They’re looking for help, for answers, and for other options. Those are the customers who will make decisions based on the criteria your educational marketing has taught them to use. Investing in the Marketing that Matters Todd understands the need for educational marketing and has become so successful at it that he went on to bigger and better automation programs. He outgrew the basic marketing principles that he learned when Fourandhalf was helping him make marketing videos 10 years ago. He has some advice to the property managers who are small and strapped for cash and maybe afraid to spend money on marketing. Todd also works with a lot of clients who don’t have $10,000 a month to spend on marketing. He tells those clients that the educational component works. It was true 10 years ago when everyone was talking about content marketing and the benefit of education. And, it’s true today. Look at Marc Cunningham and his company, Grace Property Management. There is video after video after video on that website, and they spend 1 percent of thei
- Jun 12, 202524 min
Maximize Property Management Revenue Part 2: Churn, Lifetime Value, and Legislation
Most property-management owners focus on adding new doors, or, they’re just concerned with reputation management and they don’t feel like they need to grow their business. But, they ignore the cause of lost revenue and lower customer lifetime values: annual churn that quietly erodes 20–25 % of portfolios. You probably don’t realize just how big your churn rate is. Welcome to Part 2 of our conversation with Todd Ortscheid, CEO of Revolution Rental Management. In this part of our series, we are talking about real world churn rates for property managers, how boosting your Customer Lifetime Value (CLV) can elevate your property management company and give you the budget necessary to effectively market your services, and some of the most threatening legislation and regulation around fee-maxing. How Much Are You Really Losing? Getting Honest About Churn Any industry report you read will show you that property managers can expect to lose doors every month and every year. Even if you’re doing a perfect job, your owners are going to sell their properties. They’re going to die. They might change their minds. Todd says that when asked to estimate churn, many managers guess that their churn rate is around five percent. But really, most property managers are losing 20–25 % of their doors every year. The latest NARPM® benchmarking guide says the average churn is at 20%, and Todd says that property management companies that can bring that loss down to around 10% can feel really good about what they’re achieving. Some property managers might think that they’re not losing money on churn because they’ve helped one of their owners sell a property. That’s great. There are commission earnings to be made. But, they’ve lost the recurring revenue. Never underestimate what you’re losing to churn, and even though it’s surprisingly difficult, try to bring that churn rate a bit lower. When sales are intense, churn rates will jump. Be prepared. Increasing Customer Lifetime Value When you have responsible ancillary fees in place, you’re earning extra cash to invest into better services. Better services reduce your churn and increase your customer lifetime value. Where should those extra earnings be spent? We discussed this a bit in part one of our conversation: Marketing. Each new door now yields twice the ROI, making pay-per-click (PPC) or content marketing an easy investment. Better services. Upgrade what you can provide. This might be a 24/7 maintenance line, leasing automation, and a resident-benefit package (RBP). These things are increasingly expected by tenants. <img data-dominant-color="8e7e76" data-has-transparency="false" style="--dominant-color: #8e7e76;" decoding="async" class="alignleft size-medium wp-image-234720 not-transparent" src="https://fourandhalf.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/triple-min-300x225.avif" alt="" width="300" height="225" srcset="https://fourandhalf.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/triple-min-300x225.avif 300w,
- May 28, 202519 min
Maximize Property Management Revenue Part 1: The Truth Behind Fee-Maxing
Welcome back to The Property Management Show! Today kicks off a special three-part discussion on fee-maxing with Todd Ortscheid. In Part One of this important conversation, we will take a look at what responsible fee-maxing looks like, how it can double your revenue, improve your services, and ultimately increase customer lifetime value. When done right, it can also keep residents on your side. Expect to unpack some juicy math. Todd Ortscheid: Automation Addict and Fee-Maxing Evangelist It’s great to welcome Todd back to our podcast. He has worn nearly every hat in the property management industry. He’s a business owner and advocate, an industry consultant, and currently the chapter president of NARPM Atlanta. He’s also the CEO of Revolution Rental Management and co-founder of PM Assist. A bit of time has passed since Todd was last here, so let’s review who he is and where he comes from: Todd has been in property management for about 13 years. He started in the industry in 2012 and before that, he was an airline pilot for 14 years. Todd’s father was in the property management business, so as he got involved in that business and grew the company, Todd also became more involved in consulting for other property managers. He started and later sold a maintenance company. He did government affairs work for NARPM. Todd is still consulting, and he’s also a self-proclaimed automation addict and fee-maxing evangelist. That’s what we’re interested in talking about today. The A-Ha Moment for Fee-Maxing Todd began thinking about involving ancillary fees in his own property management business at a NARPM Owner/Broker conference in 2014 or 2015, where he heard Marc Cunningham talk about the ancillary fees that were available for property management businesses. It made sense because that’s exactly how airlines work. They make most of their money not on the plane tickets but on the extras. Later, he heard Alex Osenenko and Darren Hunter talk about this topic right here on The Property Management Show several years ago. By 2020, everyone was worried about revenue, so he put together an entire course on fee-maxing and leveraging ancillary services and fees. It’s been a passion of his for years, and when Lead Simple introduced what was possible with automation, he became really involved in that as well. Fee-Maxing Can Be Polarizing (But It Shouldn’t Be) When the topic of fee-maxing comes up, it can be polarizing. Like just about everything these days, there’s a camp that’s very much for it, and a camp that’s very much against it. Some property managers hear fee-maxing and they imagine that a property manager or an owner is nickel-and-diming a resident to death. We’ve heard the term junk fees thrown around. So, what does responsible fee-maxing look like? The first thing Todd wants to point out is this is not hoarding money or being greedy. Some people get that idea, but all you have to do is gather the math and run the numbers to realize these fees are necessary in order to provide good service. When Todd and his team first started running numbers for property managers, they found the average property management company had a single digit profit margin. It was 5 or 6 percent. That’s barely skating by, and it caused a lot of companies to struggle financially. Fee-maxing is not about trying to be greedy. It’s about making your business sustainable. You shouldn’t be struggling to provide the bare minimum. As a property manager, you’re trying to provide good service to owners and residents. You’re trying to hire and train better staff. You want to invest in better technology and increase your marketi
- Jan 22, 202547 min
Residential Property Maintenance Metrics and Improving NOI (with Ray Hespen)
Ray Hespen, who is a frequent flier on The Property Management Show, joined us again to discuss maintenance metrics and how measurement improves resident satisfaction and owner NOI. The last time he was on the podcast, in late 2023, his team was just beginning to establish this concept of maintenance analytics. He was investigating what it would look like if property managers looked at maintenance from a data-driven standpoint. He was beginning to collect all the necessary data. It’s been more than a year now, and we brought him back to talk about what he’s seen since then. The Evolution of Data-Driven Maintenance If you get good measurements, you never lose. Property management has been in this black hole of information and according to Ray, that’s because we relied so much on having exceptional people run our business. It’s a super-high trust game. But, you can’t move what you can’t measure. So in order to scale, Ray and his team at Property Meld released a product that’s the best industry representation of the real world. Insights and Insights Pro are basically ways to understand your own property management business against a ladder of maintenance excellence. It’s a deep diving into: Vendor efficiency Technician efficiency Coordinator efficiency Benchmarking Finances You know what the performance actually is instead of trusting someone’s gut. Ray says it’s been surprising to see how the market has wrestled with some of this. There are some components of the data that people don’t like. They’d rather not look. Then, there are some customers where the metrics are so good, but they still want to get better. Essentially, providing access to all of this data and insights has opened Pandora’s Box. There’s no going back. It’s possible to measure leading and lagging indicators. And now, it’s possible to consider how to move those numbers. Knowing they exist is one thing. Using them to improve performance is what comes next. Geographical Insights in Maintenance Performance The most interesting data gathered from maintenance requests and responses is geographical. Ray says what’s most important in the information that’s been gathered is that property managers can see their performance against geographical regions and areas. It’s clear to see that property management companies in the southern states, which have warmer summers, have a high speed of repairs and increasing maintenance costs in May. So, it would be unfair to compare yourself to a property management company in Minnesota that does not have air conditioning repair costs until July or August. The geographical impact to maintenance in weather regions is important. Property managers don’t want to think they’re killing it or falling behind when the data is geographical. That’s what Ray calls a “big a-ha.” Customer Satisfaction and Its Impact on Retention Customer satisfaction has become a much-discussed part of property management, and that covers the satisfaction of residents and owners. It’s important to remember that resident satisfaction also affects owner satisfaction. Technically, property managers have multiple customers, but there’s also a hierarchy. Would you rather lose 50 percent of your owners or 50 percent of your tenants? Exactly. So, the hierarchy starts at the investor. Property managers do not have a business if they don’t have an investor customer. But, if property managers can make the resident happy, it’s much easier to hang onto those investor clients. So, one of the indicators of investor satisfaction is resident retention. One of the reasons that tenants leave is that they hate the maintenance. In the macro environment today, no one wants a rental on the market. Avoiding that as much as possible is important. Also, maintenance costs are growing 8 percent year over year. No one wants to turn a property when maintenance costs are higher and rents are holding or even compressing. When you’re driving investor retention, a property manager needs to look at resident retention and
- Jan 16, 202551 min
AI’s Role in Attracting Owner Leads for Property Managers
Fourandhalf’s Marie Tepman, Interviewed by Marc Cunningham on the PM Build Property Management Business Podcast Marc Cunningham, from Grace Property Management and PM Build, invited Marie onto his podcast to talk about artificial intelligence (AI) and its role in property management marketing. Specifically, the discussion revolved around getting more owner leads for property managers. In an environment where budgets are shrinking and a lot of property managers are still unsure about AI, this discussion provides some clarity. Here’s what was discussed. Property Management Marketing and Gaining Owner Leads One of the biggest challenges all property management companies deal with is bringing new owner client leads into the company. How do you drive more leads into your company? The big catchphrase now is AI. Should property management companies use AI? How can these tools be used? It’s a big umbrella in property management marketing, but first, let’s talk about the simple fact of how to get more owner leads. What’s the big picture? Leads are online. So, property management companies need a good presence online. This starts with a website. And while some companies build business through referrals, online marketing is the next step. To really get started attracting owner leads to your property management company, you need a website and you need content. Marc remembers saying “no thanks” to a company that tried to sell them on a website in the early 1990s. He though as long as he had his Yellow Pages ad, he’d be fine. Things have changed. A property management company’s website and content serve reputation. Reputation is important because you want people to vouch for you. Before buying a product or service, consumers are going to look at reviews. They’re going to want to see how many stars are on your Google rating. If you don’t have any testimonials or reviews, people might think that’s suss (suspicious, for the over-45 crowd). If a prospective owner finds your website but no one online is talking about you, there may be hesitation. You have to show that you’re trustworthy. After you have established your website and your reputation, you need content. Content and Property Management Marketing for Owner Leads The literal meaning of content is anything with words on your website. At Fourandhalf, we’re more interested in quality content. When someone who has just inherited a home needs help renting that home out, they’re not going to go online and search for a property management company. A lot of them might not even know that property management is a service that’s provided professionally. Instead, they’re going to go online and search how to find a tenant or how much rent to charge. Property management content is not selling your business. It’s not telling anyone how long you’ve been in business, and it’s not bragging about how great you are. It’s showing prospective owners that you can be trusted. It’s showing value. Any company can say they’re great. It doesn’t mean anything to your prospect. They have a problem and they want to solve it. When you’re a problem solver, you’re providing quality content. The hero of the story is the always the customer. When you show up to offer solutions, you want to make it obvious to the owner that this is why your service can help. That allows the owner to remain the hero. As the property management expert, you’re the helper getting them what they need. Don’t be the hero. Be the helper. That’s a big concept that needs to be adopted when it comes to content. Serve, don’t show off. When an owner clicks on the how-to content, they’ll find it helpful. It’s educational. So, when they get to the end of what they’ve read or watched, they’ll see who provided the content. Trust is established. Should You Just Use AI to Create Content? Maybe property managers don’t have time to create content. Is this where AI can be helpful? Can you ask AI to write a blog on how to collect rent and then throw it on your website? You can. And this is why generative AI is so deceptively awesome. When Marie first discovered ChatGPT and what it did, she feared the end of marketing had arrived. It seemed like original content would no longer be necessary. But, the more she dug into what this tool is, the more she realized its limitations as well as its uses.
- Dec 31, 202425 min
PART 2: Why the Vendor Bidding Process Is Broken (and What It’s Costing Property Managers)
Can vendor bidding solutions like RoDevia Brigham’s Proposabid create more transparency and detect fraud? That’s where we left off during Part 1 of this discussion on The Property Management Show. Let’s pick up the conversation about how the bidding process is broken, and how property managers can avoid wasting time and money. Here’s Part 2. How has Proposabid Contributed to Fraud Detection? When RoDevia was talking with her partner, they discussed how a lot of vendors would inflate pricing or maybe there would be work that was needed but didn’t really have to be done in the particular way that a vendor believed, or at a higher price point. There are a couple of specific cases that she was able to detect, and she cautions owners and property managers that things like this could be happening without them knowing about it: On-site staff may claim that work is necessary, or they’ll be billing you for work that may not be completed or required. If you’re an owner in Arizona with properties in Tennessee, you may not know that what you’re being told isn’t true. If your manager is overstretched and has 76 different properties to manage, she may not know that 34 doors need to be replaced in a specific way at one property. There could also be a conflict of interest or some self-dealing going on. Staff or property managers may use companies they own. In San Francisco, we had a cleaning company that got a $15,000 per month contract at one property for 150 doors. It was on-site staff that was registered and had an EIN. Family members worked at this company, and they managed to claim contracts across other properties for almost $500,000 over three years without the owner knowing. There was no bidding process at all. If you have a third party that doesn’t have a dog in the fight and can source bids for you in timely fashion and has comparables for you, the process is fully transparent. Proposabid also posts their bids online so other vendors can compare. Any number of issues can crop up when a company is just assigning someone to source bids who isn’t qualified to do it or is too busy to give it the necessary attention. Challenges for Property Managers in Analyzing and Comparing Bids Let’s say a property manager does manage to get some bids. Now it’s time to analyze and compare them. What are some of the challenges and issues would a company face at that point in time? First, RoDevia would be wondering if you have enough bids. When you do, you have to ask if the bids have expired to the point where they’re no longer viable. One of the main things she has noticed is that property managers won’t necessarily know what the vendor does not offer. For example, there was a hazmat fentanyl situation at a property, and the building had to be closed down. Police were involved. To get bids for the cleaning, you also have to think about what the vendors are not offering in those bids. Proposabid needed to analyze that particular piece. What all five vendors didn’t offer was to post drug testing. Can you post it once it’s clean? Also, what about repairs and renovations after the cleaning. It might be necessary to tear into a wall. Asbestos and lead testing might be necessary depending on what’s found when you do open up the wall. Always consider whether you know what you need beyond the bids themselves. This is the most challenging part. Another challenge can be the number of hands in the pot. If you have a board or an HOA, there could be some extra time needed. One HOA client had three good bids, but they wanted more. That’s fine, but the three best bids are still going to be the three best bids. So, who is making the decision? Can you get in touch with the right people at the right time? The person receiving the bid probably cannot sign off on the awarding of that bid. Often, staff does not know what they’re looking at or what the next move is. Another example: RoDevia had a client with seven roofs. Four had allegedly been replaced and three more needed to be replaced. But as she gathered the bids from roofers, all of them pointed out that one of the four actually had not been replaced by the original vendor. Because of her RFP process, all the vendors bidding went out to have a look, and they all reported that four roofs actually needed replacing, not three. So, is there a lawsuit with the previous vendor, and how do we prove this? It’s proven with the bids. Multiple roofers confirmed it. So now the owner has to decide whether to pay for three roofs or four. The challenges are everywhere. What you want is someone who
- Dec 19, 202431 min
PART 1: Why the Vendor Bidding Process Is Broken (and What It’s Costing Property Managers)
It’s been a long time since we put out an episode of The Property Management Show and today we’re excited to talk with RoDevia Brigham, the founder and CEO of Proposabid. The vendor bidding process is an entire industry on its own, and this is a topic we have not covered before on the podcast. Introducing RoDevia and Proposabid Proposabid does bids and estimations for properties and repairs across US. Their niche client base is property management companies, real estate investors, and mom-and-pop investors. They work with people who do not know how to go about sourcing bids for work. The idea for this company came from a shower moment. RoDevia’s background is in computer science and IT, specifically cyber security. She has an approach to her work that follows an “if this, then that” process. She’s always thinking about how to automate things. While in the shower, she asked her partner an important question: What could she automate if she could automate anything in her day as a property manager? The answer was: bidding. She said if she could just get good bids that reflected apples for apples, and those bids came in on time, and vendors would pick up the phone and submit things relevant to the work that needs to be done, then she could submit those to her property owners who could make financially responsible decisions. That, she said, would be great. RoDevia took all of that seriously, knowing it was an everyday problem for her partner’s clients. Four years later, Proposabid is doing the work that needs to be done. Property Management’s Vendor Bidding Problem The vendor bidding process in property management is essentially broken RoDevia believes. While it seems like most property managers know their vendors and have good relationships in place, why would bidding be necessary at all? RoDevia and her company focus on projects that need three bids, minimum. The process at a high level looks like this: A property manager has to contact the three companies Three different prices are submitted Proposals have to be gathered The lowest bidder is selected But in that process, there are some key items that a property management company’s staff might not be familiar with or cannot do. The phone calls and the emails go back and forth. Then, there’s the hurry up and wait while those bids come in. This can be immediate, but usually it takes a couple of weeks. Sometimes, you won’t get the bids in at all. When those do bids come in, you have to compare them: Are they apples for apples? Do they come with the right warranty? Are they offering considerations or concessions? Is scope of work correct for the price? Are the vendors even qualified? Are they in a database for licensing and insurance? Then, you may need to make corrections to the bid, and that could include going back to the phone calls and the emails. Bids are re-submitted and reconsidered. Once you have something everyone agrees on, a property manager will go ahead and submit those bids to your property owner or the landlord, and together you might decide on the vendor. That process alone can take a couple of weeks or months or in some cases, it may not even get done. Someone has to be responsible for this process. It could be a director or an asset manager or an office manager. Maybe you have in-house maintenance folks who are taking all of these bids and working on the information. This can add up to 10 hours a week, which might cost 400 to 520 hours per year. All of that labor comes with no guarantee that those bids are even getting done, and those are hours that can be utilized elsewhere in your business. Financially, the costs of a broken bidding process can be $30,000 to $40,000 lost purely on bid management. When you’re considering the roofers, the asphalt, the mold remediation, building codes, and things like that, you have to consider how the vendor bidding process looks across multiple owners. Property management staff is busy collecting rent and going to court and dealing with residents. They may not have the time to deal with this process across all the properties you manage. Standardization is necessary but not always present when it comes to RFPs and bidding. If you don’t have a consistent and standard Request for Proposal (RFP), how do you attract the right vendors? You need to understand project requirements and have direc
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About The Property Management Show
The goal of the Property Management Show podcast is to deconstruct business success into its key components and invite subject matter experts to help you improve every facet of your property management business. The topics covered here range from property management marketing, industry innovations, success stories, all the way to general best practices on how to run a successful business enterprise. The podcast creators are Brittany Jones and Marie Liamzon-Tepman from Fourandhalf, Inc – a marketing company that works exclusively with fee-based Property Management companies. Fourandhalf Marketing Agency was established in 2012 and has the best and longest track record for helping property management companies grow. They help with both marketing strategy as well as implementation. Their services include property management website design and SEO, content creation to attract and nurture leads, reputation management, online ads, you name it. Visit fourandhalf.com to learn more.
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