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The Immortal Life of Agencies: Daily Summaries Delivered
by Co:definery
Fancy a bit more positivity around the business of running an agency?Welcome to Co:definery’s podcast ‘The Immortal Life of Agencies’.Here we celebrate the visionaries and change-makers who are actively future-proofing the agency sector. Each episode features our CEO Robin Bonn having short, sharp conversations - sometimes even friendly arguments - with some of the biggest, broadest and deepest thinkers in our industry. These are the leaders who’ve been there, done that and are happy to talk about the t-shirt - even if it’s a bit grubby.Expect untold stories of progress - always optimistic and never dull.
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- 6 days ago51 min
4As’ CEO: The opportunity in change – Justin Thomas-Copeland
Today’s guest is seasoned agency leader, Justin Thomas-Copeland – now CEO of the 4As – unpacking their transformation from agency trade body into a more proactive, service-led organisation.He explains why agencies also need to look in the mirror, identify what they’re genuinely brilliant at and resist the temptation to be everything for everyone. Justin shares how specialisation strengthens culture and commercial performance, and why confidence is often a reward rather than a prerequisite.He also offers a positive long-term view on talent for our industry – from the lack of playbook for young people, to the mid-career uncertainty. This is a fascinating conversation with a leader who’s excited by change and full of optimism for what's to come.HIGHLIGHTS:[03:32] A lifelong love of change[07:27] 4As as a service[10:50] Making the hard choices[16:27] Looking in the mirror[20:10] Filling the blind spots[27:13] Build value from your DNA[34:22] Rethinking the talent equation[38:12] Beyond the linear career[46:36] The importance of creative thinkersMORE ABOUT JUSTIN:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/justintcWebsite: aaaa.orgMENTIONED IN THE EPISODE:4As Look Ahead: Looking Ahead to 2026GenJam via LBB: GenJam Challenges Creatives to Build Live with GenAIHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Website: codefinery.comBook: Market of OneMentioned in this episode:Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaireIs your agency really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge. Visit codefinery.com/dq
- 1 weeks ago40 min
Beers with Friends' Founder: Serving creativity on tap – Dana Hork
Today’s guest is Dana Hork, Founder of Beers with Friends, the sprint-based creative agency that makes creative firepower available on tap.Drawing on her experience as a brand-side marketer at Jet.com, Walmart and Wonder, Dana explains why she felt the traditional agency model was no longer keeping pace with modern marketing.That’s why Beers with Friends takes a radically different approach – working with one client at a time, bringing the right talent around the table and compressing high-stakes work into five-day sprints.Dana also unpacks how their model creates focus, choosing their ideal clients and how repeat business works without traditional retainers.This is an innovative, positive, and optimistic conversation from a client who decided to do it for themselves.HIGHLIGHTS:[02:16] Selling ‘Beer Runs’[03:26] Brand side beginnings[09:45] Paying for focus[13:57] Single vs multiple sprints[21:04] People behind the brands[24:58] Competing without competition[27:21] AI the fidelity of ideas[32:07] Designing the client experience[37:29] Optimism through innovationMORE ABOUT DANA:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/danahorkWebsite: Beers With FriendsHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Website: codefinery.comBook: Market of OneMentioned in this episode:Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaireIs your agency really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge. Visit codefinery.com/dq
- Aug 18, 202639 min
Generation Media's Group Managing Director: Embracing entry-level talent – Lisa Morgan
Today’s guest is Lisa Morgan, Group Managing Director at Generation Media, the independent media agency specialising in children, youth, communities and fandom.Lisa explains why AI should redesign entry-level roles rather than replace them, liberating people from repetitive processes to focus on using their brains.She shares how Generation Media identifies and develops young talent, balancing curiosity and technological confidence with human skills such as critical thinking, judgement and attention to detail.The conversation also explores employee ownership, evolving agency economics, and creating a coaching culture to offer young people the leadership that they increasingly demand.HIGHLIGHTS:[01:54] Generation Media’s evolution[05:39] Nurturing talent through the system[14:26] Value of employee ownership[20:43] Strengthening strategic thinking[26:25] Away from selling time[28:26] Coaching changes leadership[34:19] Limitations of technology[36:20] Finding balanceMORE ABOUT LISA:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/lisa-morganWebsite: generationmedia.comHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Website: codefinery.comBook: Market of OneMentioned in this episode:Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaireIs your agency really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge. Visit codefinery.com/dq
- Aug 11, 202634 min
Saatchi & Saatchi's CEO: Reviving an icon – Claire Hollands
Today’s guest is Claire Hollands, CEO of Saatchi & Saatchi, one of the most iconic agency brands in advertising.Claire unpacks how she revitalised this “legacy brand” by giving its most famous belief – ‘Nothing is impossible’ – renewed meaning for a more client-centric age.She describes creating an operating model around realising impossible ambitions – from seeking clients at transformative moments to setting a clearer creative standard and giving every employee their own ‘impossible ambition’.Claire explains why strong agency brands still matter – not least within holding companies – including how Saatchis acts as a doorway into the wider Publicis offering.She also reflects on letting go of leadership ego, building a more inclusive culture, and why creativity and human intelligence remain fundamental to driving business growth.HIGHLIGHTS:[03:47] Rediscovering Saatchis’ DNA[10:01] Agencies as change agents[13:39] Strategy drives the proposition[14:54] Relevance through differentiation[19:20] Power in the collective[25:01] Bringing 'Nothing Is Impossible' back[29:40] Inclusivity over sub tribes[30:20] Creating a 'We' cultureMORE ABOUT CLAIRE:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/claire-hollandsWebsite: saatchi.co.ukHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Website: codefinery.comBook: Market of OneMentioned in this episode:Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaireIs your agency really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge. Visit codefinery.com/dq
- Aug 4, 202647 min
X&O's Co-Founders: Embracing your superpowers – Eric Segal & Brett Banker
Today’s guests are Eric Segal and Brett Banker, Co-Founders of X&O – the sprint-based agency with an expert-only model, bringing together specialist talent to solve client challenges in double quick time.Drawing on more than 20 years leading teams inside traditional agencies, they share why they chose not to replicate what exists, but to rethink how the work gets done.Brett and Eric explore the shift from selling time to selling outcomes, why conviction matters more than compromise when defining a commercial model, and how freeing experts from meetings, multitasking and management responsibilities unlocks better thinking.They also discuss the future of agency talent, arguing that the industry's best people shouldn't have to leave the work they love behind simply to climb the career ladder.HIGHLIGHTS:[01:45] A new model agency[07:55] The winds of change[10:27] Solving problems[13:14] Specificity over availability[20:21] Consistency builds trust[28:34] Climbing the wrong ladder[32:30] The C-suite’s secret weapon[37:35] No long game[42:24] Conviction over consensusMORE ABOUT ERIC & BRETT:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/eric-segalLinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/brett-bankerWebsite: heyxo.coHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Website: codefinery.comBook: Market of OneMentioned in this episode:Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaireIs your agency really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge. Visit codefinery.com/dq
- Jul 28, 202640 min
Digitas EMEA's CEO: Meeting clients where they’re at – Sam Hawkey
Today’s guest is Sam Hawkey, CEO EMEA at Digitas and former CEO of both Saatchi & Saatchi and AMV BBDO. He shares his perspective on how clients and agencies must evolve together.He talks about prioritising genuine client fit – getting beyond the excitement to really understanding the likelihood of working well together. Sam unpacks his two most important criteria – the client's readiness for change and their willingness to adopt new commercial models.He also talks about the impact of genuine differentiation, as well as how Digitas promise and then deliver on outcomes, enabling clients to pay them in modern and progressive ways.Practical, optimistic and grounded in experience, this is a thoughtful conversation about building stronger client relationships and a more sustainable agency future.HIGHLIGHTS:[04:00] From advertising to CX[07:30] An orchestration mindset[09:18] Preparing clients for change[14:38] Expectations build trust[17:29] Substance and charisma[24:12] Knowing when to walk away[29:18] Relationships change remuneration[33:42] Creating pricing power[37:25] Sharing responsibility for changeMORE ABOUT SAM:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/samhawkeyWebsite: digitas.com/en-aeHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMENTIONED IN THE EPISODE:4As Blog: Before Reinventing Pricing, Agencies Must Reinvent ValueMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Website: codefinery.comBook: Market of OneMentioned in this episode:Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaireIs your agency really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge. Visit codefinery.com/dq
- Jul 21, 202640 min
Acceleration Community of Companies' Founder & CEO: Follow the consumer – Michael Nyman
Today’s guest is Michael Nyman, Founder and CEO of the Acceleration Community of Companies (ACC), an agency group designed specifically in response to the traditional holding company model.Having spent his prior career within that model, Michael explains that clients now demand speed, specialist expertise and a deeper consumer insight. So rather than accepting internal competition, ACC is optimised for collaboration and an advisory-first approach that solves client problems before deciding how to execute them.The conversation explores why organisational design has become a competitive advantage, how integrated teams can move faster, and why specialisation is mission-critical.Michael also reflects on how his competitive set is evolving as ACC grows, offering a unique snapshot of a dynamic market and demonstrating why evolution is imperative for success.HIGHLIGHTS:[02:21] Building a ‘doing’ company[04:38] Why stories matter[09:13] A circular organisation[13:21] Leading with advice[17:27] Measuring collaboration[22:17] The bundling effect[28:22] Following client demand[33:53] Finding your purposeMORE ABOUT MICHAEL:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/michael-nymanWebsite: accelerationcc.comHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Website: codefinery.comBook: Market of OneMentioned in this episode:Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaireIs your agency really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge. Visit codefinery.com/dq
- Jul 14, 202647 min
Ogilvy's Former CEO EMEA: Pivoting a life and an industry – Patou Nuytemans
Today's guest is Patou Nuytemans, former CEO of Ogilvy EMEA, whose remarkable 30-year journey from intern to regional chief has given her a rare perspective on leadership, reinvention and the future of agencies.Patou reflects candidly on the emotional reality of leaving the business that shaped her, explaining how heartbreak became gratitude and ultimately inspired a new chapter of reflection and writing.She believes that agencies don't have a creativity problem, they have a value problem. Patou describes long-standing commercial weaknesses that make it essential for agencies to connect creativity with business impact, demonstrate value over capability, and rethink how they price their work.Thoughtful, optimistic and deeply human, this is a compelling conversation about identity, leadership and why the agency industry's best days can still lie ahead.HIGHLIGHTS:[02:56] The pivot begins[04:40] Sharing gratitude[09:11] Finding purpose[15:11] Learning through uncertainty[19:07] How AI exposes truth[25:55] Demonstrating real value[29:39] Every conversation counts[34:11] From services to solutions[38:31] Back to marketing basics[42:19] Owning the futureMORE ABOUT PATOU:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/patounuytemansSubstack: patoupivots.substack.comMENTIONED IN THE EPISODE:VoxComm Research: Redesigning the agency value modelTheo of Golden: amazon.com/Theo-Golden-Novel-Allen-LeviHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Website: codefinery.comBook: Market of OneMentioned in this episode:Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaireIs your agency really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge. Visit codefinery.com/dq
About The Immortal Life of Agencies
Fancy a bit more positivity around the business of running an agency?Welcome to Co:definery’s podcast ‘The Immortal Life of Agencies’.Here we celebrate the visionaries and change-makers who are actively future-proofing the agency sector. Each episode features our CEO Robin Bonn having short, sharp conversations - sometimes even friendly arguments - with some of the biggest, broadest and deepest thinkers in our industry. These are the leaders who’ve been there, done that and are happy to talk about the t-shirt - even if it’s a bit grubby.Expect untold stories of progress - always optimistic and never dull.
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