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by Neil Benson & Sarah Penn
That Super Show brings you the latest news, insights and industry interviews to help Australian superannuation professionals improve retirement outcomes for Australians. Hosted by Sarah Penn, CEO of Mayflower Consulting, and Neil Benson, CEO of Superware.
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- 3 days ago22 min
Pension Confusion, Complaints Surge, and Australia’s A+ Retirement System
#37. Neil and Sarah's conversation tackles the stark confusion Australians face about superannuation products, especially account-based pensions. A central tension runs throughout: most members, including those already drawing a pension, simply don’t understand what their fund offers or how to use it. The discussion presses on why industry jargon persists despite clear evidence it blocks engagement and leads to poor outcomes.We debate the steep rise in super complaint volumes, the messy reality of AI-generated legal letters in claims disputes, and the sharp uptick in early super withdrawals for dental and medical costs—signs of deeper failings in wages and healthcare access.We finish by questioning whether Australia’s A-grade retirement system glosses over imbalances between healthy retirements and the quality of working life.This episode is especially valuable for:Superannuation product managers and member engagement specialists wrestling with communication clarity.Fund executives or compliance leads tracking complaint trends and regulatory standards.Policy professionals or analysts curious about the intersection of early access trends, economic pressures, and system adequacy."A good retirement's great, but a rubbish life until that point, that just doesn't seem like good policy." - Sarah PennHighlights00:00 Naming inconsistencies in super funds' pension products04:54 Increase in super complaints08:13 Rising issues in claim handling12:19 Rising dental costs and wages issue13:29 Issues with medical claims and superannuation18:53 Australian superannuation benefits and impact20:23 Discussing real wages and super fundsMentioned in this episode:ChandlerCX Internactive StatementsIt’s annual statement time for superannuation funds and ChandlerCX is busy developing interactive statements that are engaging personalised microsites for members. Think of it like Spotify Wrapped for superannuation. Visit https://www.chandler.com.au/add-ons/interactive-statements.ChandlerCX
- 2 weeks ago24 min
Government Influence or Member Focus? Debating Super Investments and Advice Fee Dilemmas
#36. [Thanks to Zanna Benson for this episode's intro]. Sarah Penn and Neil Benson tackle the recurring friction between government ambitions for superannuation and the industry's core purpose—debating whether politicians should steer fund investments into national priorities like foreign meat processing, or stick to protecting member interests and retirement security.Through the lens of recent headlines—including the ACCC’s pointed approval of Grow’s acquisition by MUFG—the episode argues that systemic caution and skepticism toward government direction is warranted, especially as regulatory scrutiny around innovation, trustee limits, and advice fee structures intensifies.The discussion exposes the uncomfortable gap between what policymakers want from the super industry and what funds can or should deliver, especially as international models creep in. The hosts call out the risks of layering conflicting objectives onto super and warn that regulatory and capital barriers could freeze out local innovation. They also shine a light on the patchwork nature of trustee limits and advice fee oversight, suggesting that an overly complex or interventionist approach helps no one—least of all members. If you’re navigating the fine line between members’ best interests and stakeholder expectations, or wrestling with regulatory drift and operational risk, this one’s for you.Who should listen:Superannuation trustees and executive teams fielding both government direction and member-first obligationsProduct and operations leaders worried about the feasibility of large tech transitions or regulatory pressureFinancial advisers and compliance officers monitoring emerging rules on advice fee deductionsUpcoming ConferencesPost Retirement Conference 2026, 20 Oct, SydneyFSC Retirement Summit, 22 Oct, SydneyEngage 2026, 27-28 Oct, MelbourneSuper FundTech 2026, 29-30 Oct, MelbourneThat Super ShowThat Super Show is the most downloaded podcast for Australian superannuation professionals. Sarah and Neil cover the issues, debates and decisions shaping the industry - without the spin.Subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts and don't forget to leave us a rating and review.Visit That Super Show website and become a newsletter subscriberEmail hello@thatsuper.show if you've got a topic you'd like us to cover or a guest proposal or suggestionFollow That Super Show on LinkedInFollow That Super Show on YouTubeYour CohostsSarah PennSarah Penn is the CEO and founder of Mayflower Consulting, an Australian financial services consultancy specialising in product governance, PDS management, and product operating model design. Her team works with super funds, fund managers, and investment platforms across Australia.Connect with Sarah on LinkedInFollow Mayflower Consulting on LinkedInVisit Mayflower Consulting websiteNeil BensonNeil Benson is the global chief product officer at ChandlerCX, where he leads a team focused on intelligent customer messaging for regulated organisations, including superannuation funds, banks, insurers, utilities and public sector organisations. His AI startup, Novagentic, was acquired by ChandlerCX in February 2026.Connect with Neil on LinkedInFollow ChandlerCX on LinkedInVisit ChandlerCX websiteMentioned in this episode:<
- Sep 21, 202637 min
Jazz Festivals, Housing and Super: The Unintended Side Effects of Regulation
#35 Neil Benson and Sarah Penn break down the real impact of recent superannuation reforms, the ongoing debate over fund consolidation, and the complex trade-offs facing Australia's retirement system.The heart of this episode is a growing tension: while Australia’s super system is lauded for low pension spending and strong retirement outcomes, it faces mounting criticism—especially from politicians—over housing affordability, administrative complexity, and perceived failures in policy. Neil Benson and Sarah Penn challenge claims that compulsory super is a “public policy failure”, pointing to Australia’s pension spend (2.3% of GDP) being dramatically lower than the OECD average (9%). But they dig into uncomfortable truths, like rising admin fees, the fallout from the Compensation Scheme of Last Resort, and unintended side effects of regulatory changes on insurance and member outcomes.The hosts explore:Is letting Australians dip into super for housing worsening rather than solving the crisis?Are super funds being pushed into unwinnable roles—like supplementing government failures on mental health and housing supply?Does squeezing the number of funds to just a handful actually benefit members, or is it just easier for regulators?Is increasing regulatory intervention in how super funds operate really moving the needle—or just inflating costs?Who should listen?Super fund CEOs and product leaders deciding strategy amid ongoing consolidationPolicy and compliance managers responsible for interpreting regulatory changeFund trustees and directors grappling with “best interests” in mergers and rising admin costsMentioned in this episode:ChandlerCX Internactive StatementsIt’s annual statement time for superannuation funds and ChandlerCX is busy developing interactive statements that are engaging personalised microsites for members. Think of it like Spotify Wrapped for superannuation. Visit https://www.chandler.com.au/add-ons/interactive-statements.ChandlerCX
- Aug 23, 202647 min
FSC Chief Breaks Down Government's Consumer Protections and Industry Reform Address
#34. The new era of super legislation: how much is too much—and who pays? Sarah and Neil dig into the government's proposed reforms with Financial Services Council CEO Blake Briggs, uncovering the central tension: how do you craft effective consumer protections after the First Guardian and Shield disasters, without layering on so much complexity and cost that it stifles the industry and confuses members?The discussion pulls no punches on who shoulders the fallout from bad actors—with good advisers, super funds, and even unrelated sectors picking up the multimillion-dollar CSLR tab for a handful of failures.Blake Briggs is blunt: unless reforms get costs down, the logic of "spreading pain" through ever-wider levies won’t last. The episode also covers why banks are being deliberately sidelined from the new advice model, the ongoing struggles to police dodgy lead generation and advertising, and the philosophical question of whether we’re training the public to expect zero risk; or shouldering the cost for market events nobody can insure away.Who should listen:Product, risk, or legal leads at APRA-regulated super funds facing a regulatory overhaulAnyone working in compliance, policy, or practice management wrestling with uncertainty about CSLR costs or due diligence reformsTrustees or directors trying to gauge what the next three years look like in advice, advertising, or member communicationsHighlights04:01 Engaging with industry regulations09:14 Challenges in Financial Advisory Market12:16 New rules on financial cold calls13:43 Legitimate competition in financial advice19:46 Discussing market risk and consumer expectations22:32 Superannuation due diligence improvements25:33 Changes to CSIR compensation rules30:02 ASIC's funds management reforms32:11 Investment liquidity and consumer expectations35:49 Risks of uninformed investing41:03 Drafting and refining legislation process44:50 Government reforms in investment industry47:08 Upcoming industry session and gala dinnerBlake Briggs, Chief Executive, Financial Services CouncilConnect with Blake Briggs on LinkedInFollow Financial Services Council on LinkedInVisit Financial Services Council websiteAttend FSC Retirement Summit: 22 Oct 2026, SydneyThat Super ShowThat Super Show is the most downloaded podcast for Australian superannuation professionals. Sarah and Neil cover the issues, debates and decisions shaping the industry - without the spin.Subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts and don't forget to leave us a rating and review.Visit That Super Show website and become a newsletter subscriberEmail hello@thatsuper.show if you've got a topic you'd like us to cover or a guest proposal or suggestionFollow That Super Show on LinkedInFollow That Super Show on YouTubeYour CohostsSarah PennSarah Penn is the CEO and founder of Mayflower Consulting, an Australian financial services consultancy specialising in product governance, PDS management, and product operating model design. Her team works with super funds, fund managers, and investment platforms across Australia.Connect with Sarah on LinkedInFollow Mayflower Consulting on LinkedInVisit Mayflower Consulting websiteNeil BensonNeil Benson is the global chief product officer at ChandlerCX, where he leads a team focused on intelligent customer messaging for regulated organisations, including superannuation funds, banks, insurers, utilities and public sector organisations. His AI startup, Novagentic, was acquired by ChandlerCX in February 2026.<a href="
- Aug 18, 202641 min
Bringing AI to Super: Australian Food Super’s New Member-Friendly App and the Future of Advice
#33. Australian Food Super’s Dan Mosson and InvestStream’s Gary Bryan join Neil and Sarah to dig into the realities - not just the AI-pilled promise - of using AI to make super advice genuinely usable for everyday Australians.Most digital super tools feel like bland calculators or force members into a Woolworths-like DIY experience, making the complex even harder. Australian Food Super wanted not just self-service, but truly member-friendly advice, especially for a membership base often new to the Australian workforce or with limited financial and language literacy. Their answer was a new app, built with InvestStream, that uses conversational AI layered over robust, regulated mathematical models turning intimidating jargon and forms into real conversations, accessible explanations, and actionable choices.HighlightsWhy regulated industries like super can't just 'plug in' chatbots and hope for the best—instead, they need compliance-first, auditable tech with tight guardrails.The strategic advantage: Smaller funds, with less bureaucracy, can innovate faster and co-design tools to genuinely fit their members, not just copy what’s easy.How conversational AI, when used right, isn't about replacing advisers, but making complex calculators accessible, demystifying concepts, and driving real outcomes for ordinary Australians.The ongoing balance: Surviving and thriving with regulatory ambiguity, and making member-first innovation work while waiting for clearer guidance from ASIC or APRA.Who should listen:Fund executives and trustees at smaller/boutique superannuation funds looking to use tech to leapfrog larger competitors.Product, member experience, or digital leads wrestling with how to use AI without compromising compliance or trust.Anyone in regulated financial services seeking practical, first-hand lessons on deploying chat-driven digital advice—without the “wild west” risks."It's easy to set the tool to deliver to the guardrails. It's hard when you don't know where the guardrails are going to be."—Dan Musson, Aus Food SuperTimeline04:07 Introducing AI at ASFA Conference07:41 Developing Financial Modeling Processes12:45 Discussing AI Regulation and Trust14:20 Regulation lagging behind technology19:20 Simplifying complex legal info21:48 Understanding member concerns with super24:59 Testing product ideas with feedback29:09 Developing compliant insurance conversations32:21 Embracing innovation and risk balance34:39 Rethinking superannuation industry challenges39:31 Improving member support and resources40:34 Future plans for member-focused toolsGuestsDan Musson, chief experience officer at Australian Food SuperConnect with Dan on LinkedInFollow Australian Food Super on LinkedInVisit Australian Food Super websiteGary Bryan, chief product officer at InvestStreamConnect with Gary on LinkedInFollow InvestStream on LinkedInVisit InvestStream websiteMentioned in this episode:ChandlerCX Internactive StatementsIt’s annual statement time for superannuation funds and ChandlerCX is busy developing interactive statements that are engaging personalised microsites for members. Think of it like Spotify Wrapped for superannuation. Visit https://www.chandler.com.au/add-ons/interactive-statements.ChandlerCX
- Aug 9, 202617 min
Prime and Aware Merger, Fee Hikes, and the Pricing Challenge in Superannuation
#32. Neil Benson unpacks the growing pressure on Australian superannuation funds to clearly explain what members pay for, and whether scale, complexity, and rising costs are delivering genuine value.Central tension: As more funds merge, raise fees, or tweak insurance, the old argument that "bigger is better" isn't enough. Members, regulators, and boards now demand concrete proof that these changes actually improve retirement outcomes, service, and member experience—especially as costs climb and the product gets more complex to explain.Key arguments and questions explored:Mergers like Prime Super and Aware Super may boost size, but Neil challenges whether these scale plays tangibly benefit members, especially from the dominant fund's perspective.Insurance changes at BUSSQ Super underline difficult trade-offs between providing better cover and increasing cost, especially for underinsured sectors. The real issue is whether members understand (and want) what they’re getting.Fee increases at giants like AustralianSuper raise hard questions: If scale was supposed to lower costs, why are fees going up? Is new spending—on tech, cyber, compliance—making members’ lives better, or just making the business bigger?As funds like Spaceship Super seek higher fees to enter complex investments like private credit, Neil warns it’s not enough to promise higher returns; funds owe members a transparent, easily understood rationale.The big challenge across these stories: Can funds make their increasingly sophisticated offerings understandable and defensible without alienating members or regulators?Who should listen:Fund trustees or executives facing member questioning about mergers, fees, or insurance changesCX, product, and insurance leads in super funds wrestling with how to communicate value to disengaged or skeptical membersAnyone in superannuation tasked with justifying strategy to regulators or boardsRESOURCESPrime Super and Aware Super announce plans to explore Successor Fund TransferAustralianSuper lifts administration fees while investment costs declineBUSSQ ups insurance cover, costsSpaceship Super ups fees on private credit exposureThat Super ShowThat Super Show is the most downloaded podcast for Australian superannuation professionals. Sarah and Neil cover the issues, debates and decisions shaping the industry - without the spin.Subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts and don't forget to leave us a rating and review.Visit That Super Show website and become a newsletter subscriberEmail hello@thatsuper.show if you've got a topic you'd like us to cover or a guest proposal or suggestionFollow That Super Show on LinkedInFollow That Super Show on YouTubeYour CohostsSarah PennSarah Penn is the CEO and founder of Mayflower Consulting, an Australian financial services consultancy specialising in product governance, PDS management, and product operating model design. Her team works with super funds, fund managers, and investment platforms across Australia.Connect with Sarah on LinkedInFollow Mayflower Consulting on LinkedInVisit Mayflower Consulting websiteNeil BensonNeil Benson is the global chief product officer at ChandlerCX, where he leads a team focused on intelligent customer messaging for regulated organisations, including superannuation funds, ba
- Jul 30, 202654 min
Xavier O'Halloran: Superannuation's Customer Service Failures
#31. The episode digs into why customer service in superannuation call centres is consistently failing, what that means for members at moments of real need, and whether mandatory service standards are required to fix it.Xavier O'Halloran of Super Consumers Australia joins Neil Benson and Sarah Penn to break down the findings of a first-of-its-kind research project: not one super fund met basic customer care expectations, with average scores across the industry barely scraping 49 out of 100.The conversation moves beyond the numbers to challenge assumptions about what good service actually looks like in super, question the incentives facing funds, and ask whether consumers can trust the market to improve on its own—or if regulation and public benchmarking are the only way forward.There's a clear sense that too much focus on efficiency metrics, like short call durations, misses the real point: helping people, often at their most vulnerable. The hosts and guest also debate wider consumer protection gaps, from SMSFs to retirement product design, arguing that fair and accessible service must be a foundation, not an afterthought.Who should listenSuper fund executives and trustees concerned about service standards or looming regulationContact centre leaders tasked with improving member experiencePolicy or compliance professionals tracking how customer care is shaping industry benchmarking and government interventionStandout quote"They just had to act like a human. So not very high bar, but that was the one that they scored worse on." — Xavier O'HalloranHighlights04:40 Issues with superannuation customer service06:45 Improving service through practical examples10:55 Addressing vulnerable customer interactions14:59 Research to improve fund transparency18:54 Consumer channel preferences by age19:32 Superannuation accessibility and diversity24:00 Discussion on advice fee levies27:53 Proposed reforms for SMSF trustees30:16 Concerns about low-cost SMSFs33:04 Understanding consumer retirement planning37:11 Evaluating retirement investment options42:08 Advancements in individual savings45:53 Improving retirement service integration49:32 Concerns about retirement planning changes51:19 Discussing safe harbor legislation concernsGuest: Xavier O'HalloranConnect with Xavier O'Halloran on LinkedInFollow Super Consumers Australia on LinkedInVisit Super Consumers Australia websiteThat Super ShowThat Super Show is the most downloaded podcast for Australian superannuation professionals. Sarah and Neil cover the issues, debates and decisions shaping the industry - without the spin.Subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts and don't forget to leave us a rating and review.Visit That Super Show website and become a newsletter subscriberEmail hello@thatsuper.show if you've got a topic you'd like us to cover or a guest proposal or suggestionFollow That Super Show on LinkedInFollow That Super Show on YouTubeYour CohostsSarah PennSarah Penn is the CEO and founder of Mayflower Consulting, an Australian financial services consultancy specialising in product governance, PDS management, and product operating model design. Her team works with super funds, fund managers, and investment platforms across Australia.Connect with Sarah on LinkedInFollow Mayflower Consulting on LinkedInVisit Mayflower Consulting websiteNeil BensonNeil Benson is the global chief product officer at ChandlerCX, where he leads a team focused on intelligent customer messaging for regulated organisations, including superannuation funds,
- Jun 29, 202643 min
Transforming Death Claims Handling: How CBUS Super Tackled Super’s Most Challenging Process
#30. Cohosts Neil Benson and Sarah Penn chat with Kerry Vogel, Head of Insurance Claims, Performance and Delivery at CBUS Super. Today's conversation focuses on how CBUS Super responded to major failings in handling death claims by moving beyond surface fixes and fundamentally redesigning the process.The central argument: Australian super funds create unnecessary complexity and distress for grieving families by relying on outdated, paperwork-heavy systems, and CBUS has proven it’s possible (and necessary) to remove those frictions even within tight regulatory constraints.A key theme that emerged was how stripping away non-binding and lapsing nomination options, and instead prioritizing a single, digital-first, non-lapsing binding nomination, can mean faster, simpler outcomes, anchored in clear trust deed rules and tailored to real member behaviours. The discussion explored why simply throwing more staff at claim backlogs doesn’t work and how only deep, systemic change can build genuine trust with members. Several points were raised, including the regulatory grey areas around nominations, the human cost of delays, and the need to make processes as straightforward, and as empathetic, as possible.Who should listenClaims and operations leaders in Australian super funds struggling with legacy processes and regulatory pressureProduct or legal professionals considering trust deed reform or digital transformation of member nominationsTrustees and fund executives wary of adopting bold procedural changes post-regulatory actionGuest: Kerry VogelConnect with Kerry Vogel on LinkedInFollow CBUS Super on LinkedInVisit CBUS Super websiteHighlightsKerry Vogel emphasizes that death claims are both a crucial responsibility and a complex challenge for superannuation funds, highlighting the emotional weight behind these processes.The podcast reveals how Kerry led efforts at CBUS Super to overhaul the death claims process, aiming to simplify and enhance member understanding of their benefits.A significant point discussed was the need for clarity in binding nominations, as many members mistakenly believe their nominations are more definitive than they are, illustrating a gap in financial literacy.Kerry's approach includes not just streamlining procedures but also ensuring that the claims team maintains empathy, recognizing the human stories behind each claim.The conversation touched on the importance of regulatory compliance while seeking innovative solutions to make the claims process more efficient and user-friendly.Kerry stresses the continuous nature of improvement, suggesting that the claims process will always evolve, reflecting the need to stay responsive to member needs and industry changes.Chapters00:00 Examining superannuation challenges04:23 Challenges in Death Claim Processing10:56 Ensuring valid member nominations15:01 Dealing with death claim objections18:54 Discussing estate distribution process21:00 Addressing nominations and trustee discretion24:17 Ensuring policy transparency28:26 Issues with binding nominations31:40 Implementing a new claims process35:52 Simplifying call center processes38:09 Analyzing and improving death claims40:01 Discussing problem-solving approachesThat Super ShowThat Super Show is the most downloaded podcast for Australian superannuation professionals. Sarah and Neil cover the issues, debates and decisions shaping the industry - without the spin.Subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts and don't forget to leave us a rating and review.Visit That Super Show website and become a newsletter subscriberEmail hello@thatsuper.show if you've got a topic you'd like us to cover or a guest proposal or suggestionFollow That Super Show on LinkedInFollow That Super Show on YouTubeYour CohostsSarah PennSarah Penn is the CEO and founder of Mayflower Consulting, an Australian financial servic
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About That Super Show
That Super Show brings you the latest news, insights and industry interviews to help Australian superannuation professionals improve retirement outcomes for Australians. Hosted by Sarah Penn, CEO of Mayflower Consulting, and Neil Benson, CEO of Superware.
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