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by Danielle S. Castillejo, Margalyn Hemphill
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- 3 days ago35 min
Season 6, Episode 29: Rebecca W. Walston and Danielle S. Castillejo - Updates - Voting Right's Act
Rebecca 1. On grief, shock, and not trusting white institutions “I don't think shocked is the word that I would use. At the risk of making a sweeping generalization, I think we don't trust white people. I don't think we ever have. And I think even when we see something that looks like forward progress, that doesn't necessarily mean that we trust the white privileged supremacist institutions that were the reason why we needed forward progress in the first place. So I don't know that surprised is or shocked is a word. I think I have some grief about the fact that my generation is now facing something that we thought was long over.” 2. On how quickly government moves when Black rights are targeted “If you ask for anything else, the answer is the wheels of government move slowly and the wheels of justice move slowly… But the second you want to strip Black people of something, the second you want to oppress Black people… ‘We can do that over lunch. We can get that done in the next hour. We can undo 50 years worth of voting rights legislation in five minutes.’” 3. On whiteness as an invented category and an exchange “Isn't that the setup of whiteness all along? And when I say whiteness in that, I'm talking about the category white because the truth is nobody who identifies as white is actually like whiteness is a contrived category. What you are is European. What you are is Irish or German or British or Dutch or any other set of categories. And the whole idea in the U.S. sort of experiment is that you would exchange that ethnic specificity, that nationality and the story, the narrative and the identity that is attached to that, that you would exchange it. You would erase yourself. You would shorten your name, change your last name, drop your language, drop the accent, drop all of the cultural markers of your people to join this category called white in the United States.” 4. On the cost of racism, misogyny, and xenophobia “The exchange is always, you get to become us and them is whoever we're othering at the moment. And this belief that in that othering somehow you come out unscathed, uninjured, which is never true, right? Racism, misogyny, xenophobia, it's expensive. It costs money.” 5. On Supreme Court cases and the invention of whiteness “If you follow the court cases at the turn of the century where you have a number of immigrants that are coming to the United States under all these waves and there's a series of court cases, people seeking citizenship… the debate in the courts the entire time is this idea that there's such a thing as a category called white and the people who belong to this category have access to power and wealth and the people who are not in this category will not have access to that power or wealth.” 6. On racism reinventing itself “Racism is smart. Misogyny is smart. Xenophobia is smart. It never stays the same. It morphs and it changes. It reimagines and reinvents itself. It's clever… When you have this period of expansion of rights, it will be followed by a period of extreme backlash.” 7. On the danger of believing civil rights are permanent “I was born into a season where the battles had already been fought and won and the space around human rights was fairly expansive. So my only experience is living in the space of having the rights, the civil rights that we should have as human beings. That's what I know, and it never dawned on me… that in a country that could put the first Black man in office could at the drop of a dime pivot and do the polar opposite.” 8. On power, race, and who gets to belong “In the end it's probably really about power and that racial lines, gender lines, nationality lines are how we have decided to limit the access to that power. And this is the thing: when you get invited into the us category and you think you're secure, you aren't. Because to quote Martin Luther King Jr., injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. Just because today you fall in the category of us in the us versus them calculation is no guarantee that tomorrow you will stay in that category.” 9. On loyalty to power “If my connection is only to power, I'm loyal to no one and at the same time I'm loyal to anyone who allows me to keep that power.” 10. On the present threat and the limits of talking about trauma as past “Probably the way that we were imagining trauma in that cohort was on this idea that the trauma that we're talking about has long since passed and whatever that threat was doesn't exist today in that way. And for that reason, we sort of have the space to talk about the trauma itself and its impact. And I think where we are in this moment is that's no longer true. The threat is present, it is real, it is tangible, and it's bigger and more concrete in significant ways than it was five, six years ago.” 11. On fear, denial, and
- 1 weeks ago1h 12m
Season 6, Episode 28: Rebecca, Danielle, and Jenny: Settler Colonial Sex and Purity Culture Stuff
Danielle 1. On adults needing honesty before they can guide young people “But then that comes back to us and being able to honestly talk about our own experiences as kids and be far more honest about what that experience was. Be far more honest about the spectrums we probably all lie along or the ways we've felt confused or the way we've worked through maybe even contradictions in our own selves that don't feel like they fit and what tools have we used that are helpful, what tools have not worked for us… I think it's a new way of differentiating from us as parents to be able to explore something different.” 2. On colonization, sex, caste, and racial hierarchy in Mexican history “One thing I know about my history and a part of the complex and layered part of Mexican history is that when colonizers came over, the Spanish particularly, they would then send for their families or their wives, but they would also, part of the strategy along with the Catholicism and the Christianity that was brought, was having babies with Africans that were enslaved… part of the colonial atmosphere was to essentially make classes of people based on race. And so you have a Christian monogamous colonizer with this sent-for family also having… either Indigenous folks or Africans that have been enslaved… That was intentionally done through sex under the guise of monogamy.” 3. On anger, violence, and the body “We know how arousing anger is and regardless of your sexual orientation, in our bodies anger is so arousing… as they put certain categories of people into unacceptable other categories, they're literally arousing themselves… essentially getting off on the violent talk is what I think and feel… using the content of the United States and our military as a form of doing that just feels so deeply violating.” Rebecca 1. On sexuality and gender as communal, not only individual “Sometimes we can think about this conversation about sex and sexuality and gender and all of that as this sort of individual choice or this individual expression. But I think there's something to be learned from the idea that it can be very communal and very collective and in that way have communal and collective impact. And I think sometimes we don't take that into account in very real ways.” 2. On young people needing a bigger frame “I definitely have the experience with my two kids of just a general sentiment like the frame that you gave me is not big enough to hold all of the things that my world requires me to hold. It's not. I need a different frame. I need a bigger frame. I need some flexibility in the framing in order to engage the world that is in front of me… Sometimes I think the best thing that we can do as adults in that space is say okay and be willing to knock down some walls and get rid of some steel and put something flexible in that space so they can breathe a little bit and figure it out.” 3. On not confusing authentic monogamy with colonial violence “Does that invalidate monogamy? And my answer would be no, it doesn't… if you're running around intentionally creating babies with the Indigenous people that were there in the place where you have come to conquer, don't call yourself believing in monogamy because that's a boldfaced lie… Christian nationalism is not Christianity, it's something else. And part of what is infuriating to me is the hijacking of an idea or vocabulary or belief that in and of itself is fine and it gets hijacked and applied to something that is a gross perversion of what it was meant to be.” Jenny 1. On purity culture, abstinence-only education, and labels “So much of that… is a symptom of purity culture and the fact that we don't talk about sex. The abstinence-only generations since the ’80s were we don't talk about sex. And it was sort of Nancy Reagan’s idea of just say no was applied to sex. And so consent was not talked about. Sexuality was not talked about. Gender expression was not talked about. And it's not that those things didn't exist… The queer community has always been around.” 2. On labels as both liberating and limiting “Raphaela Fieo from Healing Exchange says labels can be liberating or they can be limiting. And I think it's important to hold both. For some people, labels are really, really important and for some people labels are like, I don't actually want you to try to define me or put me in a box.” 3. On settler sex and Christian nationalism “What would have to happen is the reckoning of white heteronormative Christian nationalism… Kim TallBear is an Indigenous polyamorous scholar who has this article called Making Love and Relations Beyond Settler Sex… they essentially critique a lot of the white sex-positive communities that don't acknowledge the privilege in white polyamory or sex-positive practices when it literally was gender and racial and familial relati
- Apr 17, 202655 min
Season 6, Episode 27: Danielle, Rebecca and Jenny McGrath - Pope Leo and the President
"Woe to those who manipulate religion and the very name of God for their own military, economic and political gain, dragging that which is sacred into darkness and filth," Leo said during his four-country tour of Africa. "It is a world turned upside down, an exploitation of God’s creation that must be denounced and rejected by every honest conscience." Link here Podcast Summary: Pope Fiction This episode is a sharp, passionate, and often humorous conversation about religion, power, and political corruption in the current American moment. Using recent controversies involving Donald Trump, Pete Hegseth, and Pope Leo as a starting point, the three of you explore how Christianity is being manipulated for political gain and how sacred language is used to justify cruelty, nationalism, and violence. A central thread of the episode is grief and disbelief: How did so many faith communities get here? Rebecca especially wrestles with the collapse of theological integrity inside modern evangelicalism, while Jenny situates these distortions within a much longer historical pattern—empire repeatedly co-opting religion for domination. Danielle brings in race, imagery, and whiteness, asking how white depictions of Jesus shape public consciousness and who gets recognized as holy in the first place. The conversation also moves toward accountability. You discuss public figures like Tucker Carlson, Candace Owens, and Marjorie Taylor Greene criticizing Trump, but question whether criticism without confession or repair means anything. What emerges is a larger theme: repentance is not words—it is dismantling harmful systems one helped build. Despite the outrage, the episode holds onto resistance and hope. Danielle names the endurance of oppressed people—“We’ve been doing this for hundreds of years and we’re still here.” Rebecca points to truth-telling traditions, especially from the Black church, as carrying moral clarity in moments when mainstream institutions fail. Jenny reminds listeners that these abuses are ancient, but so is the resistance to them. Overall, this is a podcast about spiritual discernment in a disorienting age: how to recognize counterfeit faith, refuse numbness, and keep one’s conscience alive. Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.
- Apr 3, 202655 min
Season 6, Episode 26: Danielle, Jenny, and Rebecca on Women in Power, Pam Bondi?
Danielle “When it comes to defending my kids, my husband, my community, my family members—even if I don’t like you and I thought it was unjust—I could really step in and kick some ass. But when it comes to myself, the shutdown is so strong. I almost want to fall asleep.” Rebecca “There’s a reason why you can be so passionate about justice—because you know what unjust feels like and looks like and sounds like. Whatever we have to do to survive that stays with us. And we can simultaneously say, ‘I won’t ever stand by and watch somebody I love feel what I felt.’” Jenny “I think part of it is how I’ve been socialized as a white woman—you are supposed to be demure and look out for the betterment of other people. And even when women speak up about harm, they say, ‘I didn’t want this to happen to another woman.’ And that’s good—but why isn’t it enough to say, ‘This happened to me, and it’s not okay?’ It’s like we need a surrogate to make it permissible to tell the truth.” Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.
- Mar 20, 202647 min
Season 6, Episode 25: Jenny, Danielle and Rebecca: Iran, Dolores Huerta, and Women
Episode Summary Trigger Warning: We should mention that parts of this story might be disturbing for some of our listeners. Dolores Huerta reminds us of the risk still carried in speaking: “I think that women when they do come forward with their stories, that they instead of getting the kind of support that they need, to get attacked, I mean, or they're not believed that we've seen this happen throughout history, and so I think we'll just have to deal with that if it does happen. Hopefully it won't, but if it does, we'll just have to deal with it… have you spoken to the two women who were girls when they were assaulted by Cesar Chavez?” From Latino USA Podcast In this episode, the hosts move from a light, relatable moment—caring for an anxious rescue cat—into a deeply layered conversation about power, harm, and the complexities of accountability in both personal and societal contexts. Prompted by emerging allegations surrounding civil rights leader Cesar Chavez, the conversation explores a painful and recurring question: how do we reconcile meaningful social contributions with personal harm, particularly when those in power abuse their position? The hosts reflect on the exhaustion of witnessing repeated patterns of powerful men causing harm, and consider how systems of power themselves may shape or even encourage these dynamics. Drawing on psychological frameworks like the Stanford Prison Experiment, the discussion examines how dominance, hierarchy, and culturally defined leadership traits may predispose individuals toward harmful behavior. Danielle introduces her theory of “white attachment” as a hierarchical rather than relational system—one that prioritizes proximity to power over mutual connection—resulting in cycles of exclusion, trauma, and disconnection from belonging. The conversation expands into a broader critique of Western constructs of identity and belonging, particularly the idea that access to power and resources defines inclusion. Rebecca frames “whiteness” not as an inherent trait, but as a system organized around who is granted access and who is denied it—often requiring individuals to sacrifice parts of themselves to belong. From there, the hosts explore the instability of belonging in American systems—where invitations (to citizenship, safety, or care) are often paired with betrayal. This tension is linked to intergenerational trauma, migration, and the lived reality that safety is never guaranteed, even when promised. A central theme emerges around accountability: what it is, who enforces it, and whether current systems are capable of holding harm in meaningful ways. The group critiques institutional failures—from government to churches—and wrestles with the limitations of both punitive and individualistic approaches. In contrast, they reflect on community-based models of accountability, including restorative practices observed in Ugandan communities, where harm is understood as collective and healing involves ritual, reintegration, and shared responsibility. This raises a core tension between individual justice and communal repair—especially in cases of sexual violence, where harm is both deeply personal and socially embedded. The episode also highlights: The cost of silence for survivors, particularly when speaking out threatens community stability The lack of accountability for perpetrators, even when evidence is public (e.g., Epstein cases) The need to shift cultural responsibility from protecting victims to shaping the behavior and accountability of men The failure of communities to address early warning signs of harm Throughout, the hosts resist easy answers. Instead, they hold the complexity of these issues—acknowledging the difficulty of balancing justice, safety, belonging, and repair in a world where harm is both systemic and deeply human. The episode closes with a recognition that while no clear solutions were reached, the conversation itself reflects an ongoing search for more honest, collective, and humane ways of addressing harm and accountability. Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.
- Mar 12, 202644 min
Season 6, Episode 24: Jenny, Danielle and Rebecca on Epstein, Iran and White Women
Jenny : I think is actually thought provoking. I've seen some conversation around the idea that there was this intentional move to make white women the face of this administration and to do it in a way that is you're woefully unprepared. You maybe even are intentionally ill prepared to take the fall and that that is not a new dynamic for white men. Rebecca : She really can't talk. Jenny : Okay. I'm sorry. We had just talked, so I was not prepared for your voice to sound like that. It sounds great. It sounds great. Yeah. : I know. I know, but I still wasn't ready. I'm sorry, friend. That sucks. You sound really sorry. : Yeah. No, I like this, Rebecca. I feel like this is so much about what I've been researching and writing for my book is what I'm calling the anatomy of a missionary and looking at how white women were set up as soft power for imperialism and the gender social role that white women serve abroad. I think we're experiencing now what Emma says calls the boomerang of imperialism. And so the roles that white women have taken on in the global south for 50 years plus, we're now seeing those higher levels of power, but it's not actually ... It is levels of power, but it's mostly levels in proximity to male power that are still above those women. So they're always going to be on the sacrificial block whenever they need to be more than the white males in those positions would be, is what I think. : I would call it a position of power so long as the performance is enacted to suit power. And I just read this really great article from Carrie Twigg about how Christine Nome essentially got fired because she couldn't perform on TV well. And Trump is looking to continue to build his media empire and use propaganda to get people to continue to stand behind him, and she didn't perform well. And so it is power so long as you don't mess up, but the second that you don't align yourself with the way that power wants you to. So it's a really precarious power, I would say. Rebecca : See, I would even say, I don't think that's why she got fired. I would say that- And there was no move to find someone that's actually qualified, who had a snowball's chance of performing well on the world stage. So that's why I'm like, I don't think it is as simple as she didn't perform well. She was never going to perform well. And you knew that when you picked her. And so to me, I'm like, what's that choice actually about? It's the same thing now. I heard on the news recently that : Erica Kirk just got appointed to be the chair of the Air Force. I don't know. Some committee, some task force that has something to do with the running of something to do with the Air Force. And all of my apologies for not getting this particular thing specifically right. But my thing is, what do you know about armed forces? Nothing. It's not like you're a former retired Air Force, whatever. You're not. You know nothing about any of this. So again, you're picking someone from jump, blonde-haired, blue-eyed female who is ill-prepared from the very beginning for this very public face of a very armed forces in the middle of a w
- Mar 5, 202656 min
Season 6, Episode 23: Jenny, Danielle, Rebecca: Christian Nationalism and this Moment in Iran
“El mexicano frecuenta a la muerte, la burla, la acaricia, duerme con ella, la festeja, es uno de sus juguetes favoritos y su amor permanente.” ― Octavio Paz, El Laberinto de la Soledad Lindsay Graham: https://abcnews4.com/news/local/after-laying-out-a-similar-plan-11-years-ago-lindsey-graham-hails-trumps-iran-operation https://youtu.be/wjGgrU8g30c?si=Bly_wZswHLJr8gpw Danielle : I saw this thing from Lindsay Graham, this clip, and he was saying what we're doing in Iran now is going to ... And Lindsay Grand is a senator here in the United States. And he said he's going to ... What we're doing in Iran, quote, doing, because they're not calling it a war, they're calling it a special operation. He said is going to set the tone in the Middle East for the next 1000 years. And so you can go into your eschatology and your theology after this, Jenny, but he also then proceeded to say that this is a matter of which religion is going to be predominant in the planet. And they talked about Islam and they spoke about Christianity in those terms. And yeah, I wonder what comes up for you as I even just say those brief few sentences about theologically how we grew up or the frame you come from. Jenny : So much. I mean, so much. I think about how skewed and biased the interpretation of Revelation was in the world that I grew up in. And it was always like fear mongering, like barcodes were the mark of the beast. And then I know people in that same world that said that COVID vaccines were the mark of the beast and just like all of these things. And the mark of the beast was literally the numerical definition of Caesar Nero. It's nothing like we say it is. It was apocalyptic literature that was speaking to the time for a very specific purpose. And yet it has been co-opted. And I really appreciate this book from Bart Erman called Armageddon, and he breaks down the entire historical context for the Book of Revelation and then what has happened to it. And I was thinking about, I was nine, 10 years old when I watched the movie Left Behind with Kirk Cameron and I was terrified that the rapture was going to happen. : And it was only a year or so, maybe it was even in that same year that I watched the two planes hit the world Trade Center buildings on my family's television. And it was the same television I had just watched Left Behind on that year. And so in my little nine, 10, 11 year old brain, I was like, oh my God, those pilots got raptured and me and my mom are here in our living room and that's what happened.That's how quickly and how much that was associated with my consciousness and what I had been conditioned to. There's many more things that come to mind, but those are some of my first thoughts. Danielle : Well, even into my young adulthood, and maybe even now, it's been so ... We had to watch when I was little, we went to church and we watched these scenes of the United ... The rapture had happened. And then if you were left behind, then what would happen to you? And the only image I remember from these movies, and I should look them up, is people confessing Jesus because they wouldn't take the mark of the beast. And then they ... I wasn't even in kindergarten, so they put their heads through this guillotine and then they snapped down and people were beheaded. So I remember watching that at church and then at some point coming home and dreaming that the devil was in my room and then running outside and no one was in the garage. So I thought I'd been left behind. And oddly enough, even though I have moved away from that belief entirely about the rapture, if I wake up and everybody's gone or I'm not expecting it, even to this day, something flashes in my mind, "Oh, I wonder if that happened. : I wonder if I got left. I wonder if I didn't make it. " So those things have a lasting impact. Jenny : They do. They really do. I mean, I often think about ... So nine eleven happened and then that following summer, me and my mostly white dance studio from Colorado Springs was dancing at the Colorado State Fair to the song Courtesy of the Red, White, and Blue. That's literally about bombing and destroying lives and people. And we were doing punches and kicks in these old Navy American flag t-shirts. And it was, again, this fusion of fear of the rapture with this belief in if Israel takes over all of the land around Palestine, then Jesus is going to come back. And I was so conditioned to be excited about the death
- Feb 19, 202640 min
Season 6, Episode 22: Danielle, Rebecca and Jenny
Jenny : I have been thinking about conversations that I've been having and things that I've been seeing lately about this new found anger and rage for MAGA friends and family members. And I think this facade of hope for a long time that I had been called Hyperbolic and I'd been saying I was overreacting or I was paranoid, and then when things continued to escalate, there was the sense of, okay, now they'll see. Now they'll see. And really feeling like there's pretty much not more that could happen that would lift the veil of where we are in this current moment. And so then to still have family members not rejecting Trump, not rejecting Christian nationalism, not rejecting white supremacy, it has been really challenging to think through what does relationship mean right now? What does it mean from a privileged body too? I'm really hesitant, and Danielle and I have talked a lot about this, that it's a very white thing to be like, ah, I'm just going to not talk to you and I don't feel like that's necessary. And if people are saying, you just need to not talk about politics with me, what does it look like to hold my own integrity and be in relationship with people in this moment? I am struggling to know what that looks like and how to do that. Rebecca : It makes me think I'm getting ready to do, you guys probably saw this, but I'm going to do starting Monday, a group with Jen Murphy, and the name of it is Rebuilding Hope. And I think Hope has something to do with what you just said, Jenny. I am not sure how it plugs in, but I do think there's, what I hear is what do I do? Do I just give into the, they're never going to get there, and what does that mean for our capacity to stay connected in any way? Or do I still hold something of this hope that might even feel foolish in this moment of someday? Maybe somebody's going to get there. : And it reminds me a little bit of, I probably said this before in here too, there's a podcast between a conversation between Tahi cos and Ezra Klein, and in some ways they end up talking about this question of hope, although I don't think they use the word necessarily, but one of the questions that Ezra Klein it keeps asking is like, why do you keep putting everything in this long historical arc? Every single thing that we're talking about in this moment is sort of this question to Tanya. She comes like, why do you keep putting it in this long arc of history? Because that feels too heavy. It's too much, right? That's too dark. And in part I think at least the way I interpret coats as an answer is because that's where you access this kind of hope that over the long arc of history, something will shift and bend towards something that feels like justice. And that's sort of bringing Martin Luther King into this conversation about the long arc of justice. But I think Coates's answer is something of that's where we gather the capacity and the strength from the past in order to actually stay in the present with the kind of insistence for something good to come out of all of this. So I don't know, there's something in that sort of narrative and that history that I want to borrow from to say, unfortunately, this is not a new conversation in this country. : It feels that way because it's new in my lifetime. It's new in our lifetime, it's new in our generation, but it's not actually new to the country. And when you look over time, there has always forever been this strain of Christian nationalism and white supremacy, and yet we are still here and we are still here with moments like Bad Bunny in the Super Bowl still happening. And so I think, at least for me, in part, the answer to your question is I have to borrow from that space in order to have the capacity to stay in this one. And it occurs to me that I was born in the seventies post civil rights legislation by the time I was in high school applying to college, affirmative action was the law of the land : I have lived in. We have lived in the harvest of someone else's labor. We have lived in a time when rights were continually being added to the conversation in our lifetime, women could vote in our lifetime. Women can own property, they can have credit cards, they can hold all of these things. And this is the first time in my lifetime I have lived through a retraction of rights, a retraction of oxygen, a retraction of space, and it feels excruciating, but it's not the first time this country has been through that kind of rhythm and our ancestors survived and we will survive, right? At least for me, that's maybe not an answer to the question of how do you relate to your family? But it's the only way I have to go with it is to just say, somehow we will actually survive this. I don't know how, and I dunno what will be left when we start the process of rebuilding, but I have to borrow from that history to feel like I can breathe on a Thursday m
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