Season 6, Episode 23: Jenny, Danielle, Rebecca: Christian Nationalism and this Moment in Iran

“El mexicano frecuenta a la muerte, la burla, la acaricia, duerme con ella, la festeja, es uno de sus juguetes favoritos y su amor permanente.” ― Octavio Paz, El Laberinto de la Soledad Lindsay Graham: https://abcnews4.com/news/local/after-laying-out-a-similar-plan-11-years-ago-lindsey-graham-hails-trumps-iran-operation https://youtu.be/wjGgrU8g30c?si=Bly_wZswHLJr8gpw Danielle (00:04): I saw this thing from Lindsay Graham, this clip, and he was saying what we're doing in Iran now is going to ... And Lindsay Grand is a senator here in the United States. And he said he's going to ... What we're doing in Iran, quote, doing, because they're not calling it a war, they're calling it a special operation. He said is going to set the tone in the Middle East for the next 1000 years. And so you can go into your eschatology and your theology after this, Jenny, but he also then proceeded to say that this is a matter of which religion is going to be predominant in the planet. And they talked about Islam and they spoke about Christianity in those terms. And yeah, I wonder what comes up for you as I even just say those brief few sentences about theologically how we grew up or the frame you come from. Jenny (01:03): So much. I mean, so much. I think about how skewed and biased the interpretation of Revelation was in the world that I grew up in. And it was always like fear mongering, like barcodes were the mark of the beast. And then I know people in that same world that said that COVID vaccines were the mark of the beast and just like all of these things. And the mark of the beast was literally the numerical definition of Caesar Nero. It's nothing like we say it is. It was apocalyptic literature that was speaking to the time for a very specific purpose. And yet it has been co-opted. And I really appreciate this book from Bart Erman called Armageddon, and he breaks down the entire historical context for the Book of Revelation and then what has happened to it. And I was thinking about, I was nine, 10 years old when I watched the movie Left Behind with Kirk Cameron and I was terrified that the rapture was going to happen. (02:16): And it was only a year or so, maybe it was even in that same year that I watched the two planes hit the world Trade Center buildings on my family's television. And it was the same television I had just watched Left Behind on that year. And so in my little nine, 10, 11 year old brain, I was like, oh my God, those pilots got raptured and me and my mom are here in our living room and that's what happened.That's how quickly and how much that was associated with my consciousness and what I had been conditioned to. There's many more things that come to mind, but those are some of my first thoughts. Danielle (03:00): Well, even into my young adulthood, and maybe even now, it's been so ... We had to watch when I was little, we went to church and we watched these scenes of the United ... The rapture had happened. And then if you were left behind, then what would happen to you? And the only image I remember from these movies, and I should look them up, is people confessing Jesus because they wouldn't take the mark of the beast. And then they ... I wasn't even in kindergarten, so they put their heads through this guillotine and then they snapped down and people were beheaded. So I remember watching that at church and then at some point coming home and dreaming that the devil was in my room and then running outside and no one was in the garage. So I thought I'd been left behind. And oddly enough, even though I have moved away from that belief entirely about the rapture, if I wake up and everybody's gone or I'm not expecting it, even to this day, something flashes in my mind, "Oh, I wonder if that happened. (04:11): I wonder if I got left. I wonder if I didn't make it. " So those things have a lasting impact. Jenny (04:18): They do. They really do. I mean, I often think about ... So nine eleven happened and then that following summer, me and my mostly white dance studio from Colorado Springs was dancing at the Colorado State Fair to the song Courtesy of the Red, White, and Blue. That's literally about bombing and destroying lives and people. And we were doing punches and kicks in these old Navy American flag t-shirts. And it was, again, this fusion of fear of the rapture with this belief in if Israel takes over all of the land around Palestine, then Jesus is going to come back. And I was so conditioned to be excited about the death