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The ABMP Podcast | Speaking With the Massage & Bodywork Profession: Daily Summaries Delivered
by Associated Bodywork & Massage Professionals
Our goal is to speak with luminaries and experts in and around massage and bodywork to help expound upon and better understand our profession and our practices.
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- 2 days ago23 min
Ep 583 – Meet the Researchers: Hormones and Fascia with Katja Bartsch
Meet the researchers! Rachelle and Nicole continue in this series of conversations with fascia researchers from around the globe. Hormones are talking to the cells that build our fascia. In this episode, researcher Dr. Katja Bartsch of Munich, Germany shares how she's been listening in on that conversation and tells us what it means for the women on our massage tables. Dr. Bartsch is exploring an emerging and under-studied question in her research: how do female hormones — and the drop in estrogen through menopause — affect our connective tissues? Listen as she updates us on the current findings. Rachelle and Nicole discuss how the science translates to the treatment room, and why so many women in midlife arrive at our massage tables with new pain and stiffness. The research is early and the answers aren't simple, but the questions are ones every bodyworker will want to hear. About our guest: Dr. Katja Bartsch is a sports scientist and fascia researcher at the Technical University of Munich. She is a Board-Certified Structural Integration practitioner, an E-RYT 500 yoga educator, and author of Optimizing Women's Health and Training: Embracing Female Physiology for Performance and Wellbeing (UBC Press, 2025). Dr. Bartsch teaches anatomy, fascia physiology, and female hormones in trainings and workshops across Europe, including with Yoga Medicine, and through her own platform, Kalamana Yoga (kalamanayoga.com). Host Bios: AnatomySCAPES Co-Directors, Rachelle Clauson and Nicole Trombley, are NCBTMB-approved continuing education providers and teach anatomy explorations for hands-on professionals online and in person. They co-author the "Anatomy for Touch" column in Massage & Bodywork magazine and enjoy helping therapists better understand how anatomy relates to what they are feeling through their sense of touch. Nicole Trombley: As a massage educator, Nicole draws on her passion for human biology to help therapists better understand the tissues under their hands. She owns and operates Equilibrio Massage in San Diego, CA, where she has specialized in massage for pregnancy and postpartum since 2004. Rachelle Clauson: Rachelle loves teaching therapists about the structural organization and beauty of the human fascial system. She serves as the Director of Creative and Administrative Affairs for the Fascial Net Plastination Project, and owns Flourish Bodywork, her private practice where she has been offering hands-on bodywork in San Diego, CA, since 2003. Resources: Dr. Katja Bartsch's book: Optimizing Women's Health and Training: Embracing Female Physiology for Performance and Wellbeing (UBC Press, 2025) AnatomySCAPES continuing education: anatomyscapes.com Journey into the MATRIX: the Fascial System dissection lab workshop in San Diego this September 15-17, 2026: anatomyscapes.com/matrix Questions? info@anatomyscapes.com About Our Sponsors: Anatomy Trains <span sty
- 1 weeks ago22 min
Ep 582 – The Power of Great Advice with Kristin Coverly
Join Kristin Coverly as she speaks with guests Cal Cates, Dr. Joi Edwards, and Doug Nelson about the best piece of advice they've received and how it impacted their lives. Resources: ABMP Education Center: https://www.abmp.com/learn/ "Rising Strong" by Brene Brown: https://brenebrown.com/book/rising-strong/ Host: Kristin Coverly, LMT is a massage therapist, educator, and the director of professional education at ABMP. She loves creating continuing education courses, events, and resources to support massage therapists and bodyworkers as they enhance their lives and practices. Contact her at ce@abmp.com. Guests: Cal Cates Cal is the executive director of Healwell and has been teaching and developing curriculum for massage therapy courses focused on hospital-based practice, oncology massage, and end of life care since 2007. Learn more at www.healwell.org. Dr. Joi Edwards Dr. Joi Edwards is both a licensed massage therapist and a licensed physical therapist. Her continuing education company, Owlchemy Education, successfully fuses the science of orthopedics with the art and intuition of massage, bridging both worlds together with the magic of silicone cups! Learn more at owlchemyeducation.com. Doug Nelson Doug Nelson is the founder of Precision Neuromuscular Therapy Seminars, president of the 22-therapist clinic BodyWork Associates in Champaign, Illinois, past president of the Massage Therapy Foundation, the author of three books, and a columnist for Massage & Bodywork magazine. His clinic, seminars, and research explore the science behind massage therapy. Learn more at pnmt.org Sponsors: Anatomy Trains is a global leader in online anatomy education and also provides in-classroom certification programs for structural integration in the US, Canada, Australia, Europe, Japan, and China, as well as fresh-tissue cadaver dissection labs and weekend courses. The work of Anatomy Trains originated with founder Tom Myers, who mapped the human body into 13 myofascial meridians in his original book, currently in its fourth edition and translated into 12 languages. The principles of Anatomy Trains are used by osteopaths, physical therapists, bodyworkers, massage therapists, personal trainers, yoga, Pilates, Gyrotonics, and other body-minded manual therapists and movement professionals. Anatomy Trains inspires these practitioners to work with holistic anatomy in treating system-wide patterns to provide improved client outcomes in terms of structure and function. Website: anatomytrains.com Email: info@anatomytrains.com Facebook: facebook.com/AnatomyTrains Instagram: www.instagram.com/anatomytrainsofficial YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2g6TOEFrX4b-CigknssKHA Precision Neuromuscular Therapy seminars (www.pnmt.org) have been teaching high-quality seminars for more than 20 years. Doug Nelson and the PNMT teaching staff help you to practice with the confidence and creativity that comes from deep understanding, rather than the adherence to one treatment approach or technique. Find our seminar schedule at pnmt.org/seminar-schedule with over 60 weekends of seminars across the country. Or meet us online in the PNMT Portal, our online gateway with access to over 500 videos, 37 NCBTMB CEs, our Discovery Se
- 1 weeks ago16 min
Ep 581 – Creating a Culture by Design: "Fully Booked" with Elicia Crook
In this episode of Fully Booked, Elicia explores the ESIP Framework—Environment, Structure, Implementation, and People—and how these four elements work together to create a thriving, intentional workplace culture. Elicia explains how clear purpose, effective systems, consistent execution, and aligned people can strengthen accountability, improve performance, and help your business grow by design rather than by default. Host: Elicia Crook is a business coach and mentor for massage therapists, sharing the tactics she used to create her business success over 16 years. She is a diploma-qualified remedial massage therapist, using modalities such as Bowen and craniosacral therapy, and has a Cert IV in Workplace Training and Assessment, which she used while teaching massage for several years. Through her career and business experience, Crook discovered who she needed to be and what is required to run a deeply satisfying massage business. Now she takes the Fully Booked Without Burnout blueprint to other therapists around the world to create more success and passion. For more information, visit https://healthleaderco.com/ Resources: Health Leader Mastery Health Leader Mastery is our flagship 12-month coaching and mentoring program designed for massage and wellness professionals who want to grow a profitable, sustainable practice without burnout. Through a combination of training, coaching, accountability, planning, leadership development, and a supportive community, you'll gain the systems, strategies, and confidence to attract more clients, increase your impact, and build a practice you genuinely love. https://healthleaderco.com/mastery The Pain Australia Mapping: https://www.painaustralia.org.au/static/uploads/files/mpact.pdf Making the Leap to a Full-Time Business" https://www.abmp.com/learn/course/making-leap-full-time-business-part-1-mindset Sponsor: Save time and reduce stress with MassageBook. It's not just software—it's a comprehensive solution that handles online scheduling, payment processing, and marketing campaigns, making it easier for you to provide your clients with top-notch care. Enjoy free, unlimited access for 30 days and save on your monthly subscription with your exclusive ABMP member discount. Special Offer: Right now, MassageBook is offering listeners $50 off when they sign up
- 2 weeks ago21 min
Ep 580 – Interview with Dr. Armpit, Part 1: "I Have a Client Who . . ." Pathology Conversations with Ruth Werner
Ruth interviews Dr. Chris Callewaert, also known as Dr. Armpit, about his research into the microbiomes that contribute to body odor (BO). Although his work focuses on the skin of the armpits, his findings also apply to foot odor and even bad breath. In Part 1, we meet Dr. Callewaert and learn what led him to this career—spoiler alert: it involved a sleepover. We discuss the differences between "good" and "bad" body odor, how BO is classified, why it is a concern, and how it can affect a person's quality of life. We also explore the skin-gut axis and how processes in the digestive tract influence the composition of our sweat and, in the case of SIBO (small intestinal bacterial overgrowth), even the color of the tongue. Resources: Learn more about Dr. Chris Callewaert: https://drarmpit.com/ Host Bio: Ruth Werner is a former massage therapist, a writer, and an NCBTMB-approved continuing education provider. She wrote A Massage Therapist's Guide to Pathology, now in its seventh edition, which is used in massage schools worldwide. Werner is also a long-time Massage & Bodywork columnist, most notably of the Pathology Perspectives column. Werner is also ABMP's partner on Pocket Pathology, a web-based app and quick reference program that puts key information for nearly 200 common pathologies at your fingertips. Werner's books are available at www.booksofdiscovery.com. And more information about her is available at www.ruthwerner.com. Sponsors: Anatomy Trains is a global leader in online anatomy education and also provides in-classroom certification programs for structural integration in the US, Canada, Australia, Europe, Japan, and China, as well as fresh-tissue cadaver dissection labs and weekend courses. The work of Anatomy Trains originated with founder Tom Myers, who mapped the human body into 13 myofascial meridians in his original book, currently in its fourth edition and translated into 12 languages. The principles of Anatomy Trains are used by osteopaths, physical therapists, bodyworkers, massage therapists, personal trainers, yoga, Pilates, Gyrotonics, and other body-minded manual therapists and movement professionals. Anatomy Trains inspires these practitioners to work with holistic anatomy in treating system-wide patterns to provide improved client outcomes in terms of structure and function. Website: anatomytrains.com Email: info@anatomytrains.com Facebook: facebook.com/AnatomyTrains Instagram: www.instagram.com/anatomytrainsofficial YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2g6TOEFrX4b-CigknssKHA Precision Neuromuscular Therapy seminars (www.pnmt.org) have been teaching high-quality seminars for more than 20 years. Doug Nelson and the PNMT teaching staff help you to practice with the confidence and creativity that comes from deep understanding, rather than the adherence to one treatment approach or technique. Find our seminar schedule at pnmt.org/seminar-schedule with over 60 weekends of seminars across the country. Or meet us online in the PNMT Portal, our online gateway with access to over 500 videos, 37 NCBTMB CEs, our Discovery Series webinars, one-on-one mentoring, and much, much more! All for the low yearly cost of $167.50. Learn more at pnmt.thinkific.com/courses/pnmtportal! Follow us on social media: @precisionnmt on Instagr
- 3 weeks ago15 min
Ep 579 – Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome and Bodywork: "The Rebel MT" with Allison Denney
In this episode of The Rebel MT, Allison reflects on a session she had as a newbie therapist that shaped how she approaches anatomy, particularly in relation to Ehlers-Danlos syndrome (EDS). She explores what bodyworkers need to know about EDS, what interventions can be meaningfully helpful, and why the lessons learned from early mistakes can become some of our greatest strengths. Host Bio: Contact Allison Denney: rebelmt@abmp.com Allison's website: www.rebelmassage.com Allison Denney is a certified massage therapist and certified YouTuber. You can find her massage tutorials at YouTube.com/RebelMassage. She is also passionate about creating products that are kind, simple, and productive for therapists to use in their practices. Her products, along with access to her blog and CE opportunities, can be found at rebelmassage.com. About our Sponsors: Rebel Massage Therapist: My name is Allison. And I am not your typical massage therapist. After 20 years of experience and thousands of clients, I have learned that massage therapy is SO MUCH more than a relaxing experience at a spa. I see soft tissue as more than merely a physical element but a deeply complex, neurologically driven part of who you are. I use this knowledge to work WITH you—not ON you—to create change that works. This is the basis of my approach. As a massage therapist, I have worked in almost every capacity, including massage clinics, physical therapy clinics, chiropractor offices, spas, private practice, and teaching. I have learned incredible techniques and strategies from each of my experiences. In my 20 years as a massage therapist, I have never stopped growing. I currently have a private practice based out of Long Beach, California, where I also teach continuing education classes and occasionally work on my kids. If they're good. website: www.rebelmassage.com FB: facebook.com/RebelMassage IG: instagram.com/rebelmassagetherapist YouTube: youtube.com/c/RebelMassage email: rebelmassagetherapist@gmail.com Anatomy Trains is a global leader in online anatomy education and also provides in-classroom certification programs for structural integration in the US, Canada, Australia, Europe, Japan, and China, as well as fresh-tissue cadaver dissection labs and weekend courses. The work of Anatomy Trains originated with founder Tom Myers, who mapped the human body into 13 myofascial meridians in his original book, currently in its fourth edition and translated into 12 languages. The principles of Anatomy Trains are used by osteopaths, physical therapists, bodyworkers, massage therapists, personal trainers, yoga, Pilates, Gyrotonics, and other body-minded manual therapists and movement professionals. Anatomy Trains inspires these practitioners to work with holistic anatomy in treating system-wide patterns to provide improved client outcomes in terms of structure and function. Website: anatomytrains.com Email: info@anatomytrains.com Facebook: facebook.com/AnatomyTrains Instagram: www.instagram.com/anatomytrainsofficial YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2g6TOEFrX4b-CigknssKHA <p
- Jun 23, 202622 min
Ep 578 – The Productivity Struggle with Doug Nelson
In this episode of The ABMP Podcast, Doug Nelson explores the value of productive struggle in clinical practice. He shares how embracing uncertainty, reflecting on your decisions, and developing deeper understanding can help therapists grow into more confident and effective clinicians. Host: Douglas Nelson is Board Certified in Massage Therapy and Therapeutic Bodywork, beginning his career in massage therapy in 1977. Seeing over 1,200 client visits annually for decades, he is also the owner of BodyWork Associates, a massage therapy clinic in Champaign, IL. with 21 therapists that was established in 1982. He is the founder of NMT MidWest, Inc., providing training in Precision Neuromuscular Therapy™ across the USA. He has personally taught more than 13,000 hours of continuing education and is the author of three books. Doug is a past president of the Massage Therapy Foundation. Sponsors: Anatomy Trains is a global leader in online anatomy education and also provides in-classroom certification programs for structural integration in the US, Canada, Australia, Europe, Japan, and China, as well as fresh-tissue cadaver dissection labs and weekend courses. The work of Anatomy Trains originated with founder Tom Myers, who mapped the human body into 13 myofascial meridians in his original book, currently in its fourth edition and translated into 12 languages. The principles of Anatomy Trains are used by osteopaths, physical therapists, bodyworkers, massage therapists, personal trainers, yoga, Pilates, Gyrotonics, and other body-minded manual therapists and movement professionals. Anatomy Trains inspires these practitioners to work with holistic anatomy in treating system-wide patterns to provide improved client outcomes in terms of structure and function. Website: anatomytrains.com Email: info@anatomytrains.com Facebook: facebook.com/AnatomyTrains Instagram: www.instagram.com/anatomytrainsofficial YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2g6TOEFrX4b-CigknssKHA Precision Neuromuscular Therapy seminars (www.pnmt.org<span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107
- Jun 16, 202612 min
Ep 577 – Transdermal Transference: "I Have a Client Who . . ." Pathology Conversations with Ruth Werner
A massage therapist notices that more clients are reporting their use of topical hormone medications. Somehow, this never came up in massage school. Is the massage therapist at risk for being dosed? It's possible, but it's nuanced. Listen for more information! Resources: Commissioner, O. of the (2021) Investigation of skin-to-skin transfer risks of topically applied transdermal hormonal drugs, FDA. FDA. Available at: https://www.fda.gov/science-research/fda-stem-outreach-education-and-engagement/investigation-skin-skin-transfer-risks-topically-applied-transdermal-hormonal-drugs (Accessed: June 3, 2026). Could Testosterone Gel Exposure Pose Risk to Close Contacts? (2025) Medscape. Available at: https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/could-accidental-exposure-testosterone-gel-risk-your-close-2025a1000qpg (Accessed: June 3, 2026). Estradiol Gel: Uses & Side Effects (no date) Cleveland Clinic. Available at: https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/drugs/20075-estradiol-topical-gel (Accessed: June 4, 2026). Hariri, L. and Rehman, A. (2026) "Estradiol," StatPearls. Treasure Island (FL): StatPearls Publishing. Available at: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK549797/ (Accessed: June 4, 2026). Khan, S. and Sharman, T. (2026) "Transdermal Medications," StatPearls. Treasure Island (FL): StatPearls Publishing. Available at: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK556035/ (Accessed: June 3, 2026). Medication Patches and Implications for Massage Therapy | ABMP (no date). Available at: https://www.abmp.com/Massage-and-Bodywork-Magazine/Issues/julyaugust-2024/medication-patches-and-implications-massage-therapy (Accessed: June 3, 2026). Should I be worried about secondary transfer risk with testosterone gels? (no date). Available at: https://www.trted.org/articles/should-i-be-worried-about-secondary-transfer-of-my-testosterone-gel (Accessed: June 4, 2026). Sjöström, K. et al. (2022) "A review of adverse events in animals and children after secondary exposure to transdermal hormone‐containing medicinal products," Veterinary Record Open, 9(1), p. e48. Available at: https://doi.org/10.1002/vro2.48. Types of Estrogen Hormone Therapy (no date). Available at: https://www.webmd.com/menopause/which-type-of-estrogen-hormone-therapy-is-right-for-you (Accessed: June 4, 2026). Host Bio: Ruth Werner is a former massage therapist, a writer, and an NCBTMB-approved continuing education provider. She wrote A Massage Therapist's Guide to Pathology, now in its seventh edition, which is used in massage schools worldwide. Werner is also a long-time Massage & Bodywork columnist, most notably of the Pathology Perspectives column. Werner is also ABMP's partner on Pocket Pathology, a web-based app and quick reference program that puts key information for nearly 200 common pathologies at your fingertips. Werner's books are available at www.booksofdiscovery.c
- Jun 12, 202611 min
Ep 576 – Referral Strategy: "Fully Booked" with Elicia Crook
In this episode of Fully Booked, Elicia shares a simple referral strategy she discovered that helped fill her schedule quickly. Easy to implement and highly effective, this approach shows how your existing clients can become your best source of new bookings, without adding more complexity to your marketing efforts. Host: Elicia Crook is a business coach and mentor for massage therapists, sharing the tactics she used to create her business success over 16 years. She is a diploma-qualified remedial massage therapist, using modalities such as Bowen and craniosacral therapy, and has a Cert IV in Workplace Training and Assessment, which she used while teaching massage for several years. Through her career and business experience, Crook discovered who she needed to be and what is required to run a deeply satisfying massage business. Now she takes the Fully Booked Without Burnout blueprint to other therapists around the world to create more success and passion. For more information, visit https://healthleaderco.com/ Resources: Fast Five It's on sale now. Usually, USD $347 but right now $167 for 50% off this mini-course. You'll also receive 4 CE credits with NCBTMB in the US. You can find it at:https://go.healthleaderco.com/fastfive Website: https://healthleaderco.com/ "Building a Thriving Hands-On Practice", by Elicia Crook, Massage & Bodywork magazine, Spring 2025. ABMP CE Center Sponsor Save time and reduce stress with MassageBook. It's not just software—it's a comprehensive solution that handles online scheduling, payment processing, and marketing campaigns, making it easier for you to provide your clients with top-notch care. Enjoy free, unlimited access for 30 days and save on your monthly subscription with your exclusive ABMP member discount. Special Offer: <span style= "font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-fon
About The ABMP Podcast | Speaking With the Massage & Bodywork Profession
Our goal is to speak with luminaries and experts in and around massage and bodywork to help expound upon and better understand our profession and our practices.
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