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by Jacob Thomson and Rory Linkletter
Rory Linkletter and Jacob Thomson are professional marathoners chasing fast times and big goals on the roads. Training out of Flagstaff, Arizona, they’ve got plenty of stories from the grind of big mileage, the chaos of race travel, the highs and lows of racing on the world stage and the random stuff that happens between workouts. With a passion for storytelling, running culture, and building community, Rory and Jacob bring listeners behind the scenes of the marathon lifestyle. Training talk with a few detours.
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- 2 days ago1h 20m
#41 Brady Holmer - High Carb Evidence, Ketone, and How to Actually Sleep Before a Race
Brady Holmer is back for his third appearance, which officially makes him the most tenured guest in Out and Back history. He's a week out from Grandma's Marathon, coming off a stress injury and a training block built around high bike volume, durability workouts, and progression long runs in the Texas heat. The conversation covers a lot of ground: what the research actually says about high carb fueling (and where the evidence gets murky), why the crossover point matters more than oxidation rates, gel selection and why he's cycling between multiple products, a new ketone IQ study showing a 15% boost in EPO production post-exercise, and what Nomeo is actually doing in the body. Then Jacob admits he spent race night at the New York Half taking Advil PM every hour hoping to knock out, and Brady walks through what the research says about sleep before races -- including why trying harder to fall asleep is the worst thing you can do.ZBiotics: This episode is brought to you by ZBiotics, a pre-alcohol probiotic drink designed to break down the toxic byproduct that builds up in your gut when you drink -- so you can have a good night and still show up for your long run the next morning. Go to zbiotics.com/outandback, use code OUT AND BACK for 15% off your first order. Backed by a 100% money back guarantee.Meteo Pace: Be prepared for race day by getting 20% off MeteoPace Pro at https://www.meteopace.com/redeem Code: OUTANDBACK https://app.meteopace.com/redeem?code=OUTANDBACKJoin our Strava groupBuy merch: https://outandback.shop/Follow us:Jacob’s YouTubeRory’s YouTube Out And Back YouTubeRory’s StravaJacob’s StravaRory’s InstagramJacob’s InstagramJacob’s Coaching WebsiteRory's Coaching WebsiteSandyBoy ProductionsBrady's training block and Grandma's Marathon prepDurability workouts: combining bike and runHeat training in TexasWhat the research actually says about high carb fuelingGel strategy, product lineup, and decoupling fuel from hydrationNew ketone IQ study: EPO production and recoveryNomeo: how it actually works (and what we don't know)Sleep before a race: why trying harder makes it worseRecovery modalities: red light, ice bath, and compression boots rankedRapid fire: cross training, electrolytes, and pre-race caffeine
- 1 weeks ago1h 16m
#40 David Roche - The Rules of High Carb Training, How to Train the Gut, Fatigue Resistance, & Training the Pros
David Roche -- ultra marathoner, elite running coach, and what Rory's calling the godfather of the high carb revolution -- joins the Out and Back for episode 40. He started as a running back at Columbia, spent years coaching before ever being competitive himself, and broke the Leadville 100 course record in 2024 (and again in 2025!) largely by stress-testing the same principles he'd been building with his athletes. The conversation covers a lot of ground: how he thinks about carb intake across different race distances, why he separates hydration from fueling, the case for uphill treadmill threshold work, what unites his coaching across trail, road, and ultra, and why he keeps looking to cycling for answers the running world is slow to ask. David on InstagramDavid's WebsiteMeteo Pace: Be prepared for race day by getting 20% off MeteoPace Pro at https://www.meteopace.com/redeem Code: OUTANDBACK https://app.meteopace.com/redeem?code=OUTANDBACKgoodr: Upgrade your eyewear by heading to goodr.com/OUTANDBACK to claim $10 off your first order.Meteo Pace: Be prepared for race day by getting 20% off MeteoPace Pro at https://www.meteopace.com/redeem Code: OUTANDBACK https://app.meteopace.com/redeem?code=OUTANDBACKKava Haven: All the Buzz, None of the Booze — get 15% off your first order at http://kavahaven.com/outandback Code: OUTANDBACK15 Join our newsletterJoin our Strava groupFollow us:Jacob’s YouTubeRory’s YouTube Out And Back YouTubeRory’s StravaJacob’s StravaRory’s InstagramJacob’s InstagramJacob’s Coaching WebsiteRory's Coaching WebsiteSandyBoy Productions
- 2 weeks ago1h 12m
#39 Between Reps - Ottawa Marathon Edition
Olympian John Gay, host of the Shakeout Podcast, joins Jacob and Rory one week out from the Ottawa Marathon where John ran 2:14 in his debut and Rory ran 2:09 for third place to close out his spring season. They break down both races, talk conditions, pacing strategy gone wrong, a certain Prime Minister phone call, and a lot more. Also on the docket: the Bolder Boulder DQ situation, Parker Valby's return at Track Fest, Kipchoge's continental tour, the new World Athletics qualifying standards, and the US World Half Marathon team announcement.Stay connected with John:The Shakeout PodcastJohn on InstagramMeteo Pace: Be prepared for race day by getting 20% off MeteoPace Pro at https://www.meteopace.com/redeem Code: OUTANDBACK https://app.meteopace.com/redeem?code=OUTANDBACKJoin our newsletterJoin our Strava groupFollow us:Jacob’s YouTubeRory’s YouTube Out And Back YouTubeRory’s StravaJacob’s StravaRory’s InstagramJacob’s InstagramJacob’s Coaching WebsiteRory's Coaching WebsiteSandyBoy ProductionsTimestamps0:00 -- Intro2:00 -- Ottawa recap, John's debut8:00 -- Race conditions and why times were slower14:00 -- Rory's race and the Mark Carney moment21:00 -- The Prime Minister phone call, play by play27:00 -- Bolder Boulder: Emad Bashir Mohammed DQ'd33:00 -- Should Bolder Boulder open the pro field?38:00 -- Cape Town Marathon and Kipchoge's continental tour43:00 -- Should the World Marathon Majors expand?48:00 -- World Athletics qualifying standards54:00 -- Marathon pacing strategy (and a Chicago horror story)58:00 -- Parker Valby at Track Fest, Habtom Samuel's NCAA record1:09:00 -- Connor Mantz named to US World Half team1:12:00 -- US Women's World Half team situation explained1:14:00 -- Closing, hats shipped, coaching links
- 3 weeks ago1h 8m
#38 Vinny Mauri - Untold Stories from a 2:05 Marathon Debut + Training with the Out & Back Boys in Flagstaff soon?
Blue Collar Middle America Hero Vincent Mauri joins the Out & Back podcast from his woodworking shop after working a full days shift at the local running store. We know he's been on about every podcast out there at this point but we got him to tell some new stories and also discuss his future training and racing plans, hiring an agent, and trying to land a shoe dealgoodr: Upgrade your eyewear by heading to goodr.com/OUTANDBACK to claim $10 off your first order.Meteo Pace: Be prepared for race day by getting 20% off MeteoPace Pro at https://www.meteopace.com/redeem Code: OUTANDBACK https://app.meteopace.com/redeem?code=OUTANDBACKKava Haven: All the Buzz, None of the Booze — get 15% off your first order at http://kavahaven.com/outandback Code: OUTANDBACK15 ZBiotics: Learn more and get 15% off your first order when you use OUTANDBACK at zbiotics.com/OUTANDBACKVinny's StravaJoin our newsletterJoin our Strava groupFollow us:Jacob’s YouTubeRory’s YouTube Out And Back YouTubeRory’s StravaJacob’s StravaRory’s InstagramJacob’s InstagramJacob’s Coaching WebsiteRory's Coaching WebsiteSandyBoy Productions
- May 17, 20261h 8m
#37 Molly Seidel - Marathons to Trails, Western States 100 miler, How to keep running fun
Olympic marathon medalist turned trail runner, Molly Seidel, talks about her path from the roads to the trails. From the pavement to trail races to the high-altitude training that supports her quest for Western States, she shares behind-the-scenes insights you won’t hear anywhere else.Perfect for marathoners curious about trail running, road runners exploring ultra distances, or endurance athletes seeking fresh perspective—this episode opens a window into the future of multi-disciplinary excellence.MERCH: https://outandback.shop/SPONSORS:Meteo Pace App Code: OUTANDBACK for 20% offCure HydrationZBiotics Code: OUTANDBACK for 15% off
- May 10, 202647 min
#36 - How to taper for a Marathon and How to Recover After | Shakeout Podcast with John Gay
How to taper for a marathon, How to recover after a marathon & much more, on The Shakeout Podcast with John Gay ahead of his marathon debut.Kava Haven: All the Buzz, None of the Booze — get 15% off your first order at http://kavahaven.com/outandbackCode: OUTANDBACK15Check out the Meteo Pace App to be prepared for your next raceJoin our newsletterJoin our Strava groupFollow us:Jacob’s YouTubeRory’s YouTube Out And Back YouTubeRory’s StravaJacob’s StravaRory’s InstagramJacob’s InstagramJacob’s Coaching WebsiteSandyBoy Productions
- May 3, 20261h 10m
#35 Between Reps - London Marathon, 2:05 in Ohio, Has the marathon changed forever? Listener Questions!
We try to make sense of the London Marathon, compare it to the Boston Marathon, Talk about the crazy 2:05 in Toledo Ohio and then follow up with some listener questions. Enjoy!Join our newsletterJoin our Strava groupFollow us:Jacob’s YouTubeRory’s YouTube Out And Back YouTubeRory’s StravaJacob’s StravaRory’s InstagramJacob’s InstagramJacob’s Coaching WebsiteSandyBoy ProductionsMeteo Pace AppCure Hydration
- Apr 23, 202654 min
#34 Between Reps - Boston Marathon Reflection after running 2:06 and 2:09, What a weekend!
Join our newsletterJoin our Strava groupFollow us:Jacob’s YouTubeRory’s YouTube Out And Back YouTubeRory’s StravaJacob’s StravaRory’s InstagramJacob’s InstagramJacob’s Coaching WebsiteSandyBoy ProductionsMeteo Pace App
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About Out and Back
Rory Linkletter and Jacob Thomson are professional marathoners chasing fast times and big goals on the roads. Training out of Flagstaff, Arizona, they’ve got plenty of stories from the grind of big mileage, the chaos of race travel, the highs and lows of racing on the world stage and the random stuff that happens between workouts. With a passion for storytelling, running culture, and building community, Rory and Jacob bring listeners behind the scenes of the marathon lifestyle. Training talk with a few detours.
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Frequently Asked Questions
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