
Free Daily Podcast Summary
by David Burns, MD
This podcast features David D. Burns MD, author of "Feeling Good, The New Mood Therapy," describing powerful new techniques to overcome depression and anxiety and develop greater joy and self-esteem. For therapists and the general public alike!
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Episode 519: What Therapists Get Wrong—and How to Fix It Hosts:Kevin Cornelius, LMFTDr. David BurnsGuest: Jeremy Karmel What happens when therapy becomes something you simply keep doing rather than something that actually helps you get better? In this lively and provocative episode of The Feeling Good Podcast, Kevin Cornelius, LMFT, joins Dr. David Burns and Jeremy Karmel for a candid conversation about some of the biggest problems they see in modern mental health care—and what therapists can do differently. Jeremy brings a unique perspective to the discussion: he experienced severe depression in college and spent months in different therapies and therapy groups without getting better. Then, working with one of David Burns' students, he discovered powerful cognitive therapy techniques that produced dramatic results in just two weeks. The experience left him both grateful and frustrated—and motivated to understand why effective treatment can sometimes be so difficult to find. David, Kevin, and Jeremy explore several common pitfalls in therapy, including the failure to measure results, getting lost in the past, talking about problems in vague and general terms, and assuming that every therapist is qualified to treat every kind of problem. Accountability: Is Therapy Actually Working? The conversation begins with one of David's central concerns: accountability. If someone has been coming to therapy for months—or even years—how do they know whether treatment is actually helping? Kevin shares his own experience of spending several years in therapy without clearly defined goals or any systematic testing of progress. Although he valued the relationship with his therapist, he now sees the lack of specific goals and measurement as a major limitation. By contrast, his current approach involves establishing concrete treatment goals and measuring progress before and after sessions. Jeremy points out that many people in therapy cannot even answer a basic question: What are you working on? Without clear goals, it becomes difficult for patients to hold therapists—or themselves—accountable for results. Do We Really Need to Find the Cause in the Past? The group then tackles another controversial question: Does effective therapy require uncovering the origins of a problem in childhood or the distant past? David tells the story of a woman with a severe elevator phobia who had been told in psychoanalysis that the roots of her fear were in childhood—and that overcoming it might take several more years. During a workshop, David instead helped her confront the feared elevator directly. Within minutes, her fear disappeared, and she subsequently rode skyscraper elevators without difficulty. The larger point isn't that the past is irrelevant. Rather, David argues that therapy can become unnecessarily focused on discovering hypothetical causes when the more practical question is: What is bothering you right now, and what can we do about it? The conversation extends this idea to trauma and PTSD. David describes an approach that focuses primarily on the patient's current distress rather than repeatedly dwelling on the traumatic history. Jeremy shares an example of someone whose debilitating trauma-related flashbacks improved after confronting the traumatic memory directly. From General Problems to Specific Moments: The Power of Fractals Another major theme is the distinction between general problems and specific problems. People commonly come into therapy saying things like: <li style="font-weight: 400;" ar
Episode 518: Why So Much Therapy Doesn't Work (And What Actually Does) Hosts: Kevin Cornelius, LMFT Dr. David Burns Guest: Jeremy Karmel What happens when therapy doesn't work? In this provocative episode of The Feeling Good Podcast, David Burns and Jeremy Karmel join Kevin Cornelius to examine some uncomfortable questions about the mental health field: Why do some people remain in therapy for years without getting better? Why do so few therapists measure their patients' progress? What happens when therapists become overly attached to one particular school of therapy? And how can we make psychotherapy more effective, accountable, and evidence-based? Jeremy brings a particularly personal perspective to the conversation. After experiencing severe depression in college and trying numerous forms of therapy without success, he worked with Matt May using TEAM-CBT and experienced a dramatic recovery in roughly two weeks. That experience ultimately led him to become deeply involved in TEAM-CBT and in the development of the Feeling Great app. David and Jeremy describe a list of more than 30 concerns about the way mental health care is commonly practiced today. They emphasize that the goal isn't simply to criticize therapists, but to encourage a radical improvement in the effectiveness of psychotherapy. In This Episode 1. Can financial incentives create a conflict of interest? David and Jeremy explore a difficult question: If therapists are paid by the session, is there an inherent incentive to keep therapy going longer than necessary? They contrast long-term therapy without measurable improvement with a model in which the therapist's goal is to help the client recover as quickly and completely as possible. David argues that therapists should be able to define what successful treatment looks like and determine whether their interventions are actually producing meaningful change. Kevin offers another perspective from his experience at Feeling Good Institute, where brief TEAM-CBT therapy can lead to rapid improvement while also generating referrals because clients recognize that the treatment is effective. 2. Are schools of therapy becoming like "cults"? David and Jeremy question the tendency within psychotherapy to become attached to particular theorists, schools, and treatment models. Instead of assuming that one approach explains every psychological problem, they argue for flexibility. Depression, anxiety, relationship problems, and other difficulties may have very different causes and may require very different interventions. David describes TEAM-CBT as a framework for effective psychotherapy rather than allegiance to one particular technique. He has developed more than 140 techniques and emphasizes selecting methods according to the individual's specific problem. Jeremy points out that therapists and patients can be tempted to treat the ideas of famous figures such as Freud or Carl Rogers as unquestionable truths rather than hypotheses that should be tested against evidence. 3. The refusal to measure Perhaps the strongest theme of the episode is the importance of measurement. David argues that therapists need to know whether their patients are actually improving—not simply assume that they are. His approach involves measuring symptoms at the beginning and end of sessions and tracking changes over time. If a person begins a session feeling 90% depressed and ends at 80%, that's useful information. If the numbers don't improve from week to week, the therapist has evidence that something needs to change. On the other hand, dramatic changes can provide tangible evidence that treatment is working. Jeremy shares the story of a friend who had apparently been depressed for 18 months or more while receiving therapy, yet neither the therapist nor the patient had been systematically measuring whether the depression was improving. 4. Therapists aren't always accurate judges of how their patients feel One of the most surprising parts of the discussion is David's argument that therapists' clinical intuition can be remarkably inaccurate. He describes research in which highly trained clinicians interviewed patients extensively and then estimated how depressed, anxious, angry, or suicidal the patients were. Their estimates were extremely inaccurate compared with the patients' own ratings. The lesson is humbling: We cannot reliably assume that we know how another person feels simply because we've spent a
Episode 517: How a Bloody Trauma Case Cured My Lifelong Blood Phobia Hosts: Kevin Cornelius, LMFT Dr. David Burns Episode Summary Can your greatest fear become one of your greatest strengths? In this deeply personal episode, Dr. David Burns shares the remarkable true story of how a severe lifelong blood phobia nearly ended his medical career—and how one unforgettable day in the emergency room transformed that fear forever. David recounts his unconventional path to becoming a psychiatrist, including almost dropping out of medical school, taking years away from medicine, living without money while trying to create a life centered around helping others, and eventually finding his way back to psychiatry through a residency at Highland Hospital in Oakland. On his very first day in the emergency department, David was confronted with what seemed like his worst nightmare: a critically injured bombing victim covered in blood. Unable to avoid the situation, he was asked to help clean gunpowder from the patient's wounds. What began as overwhelming terror became an unexpected turning point that permanently erased his blood phobia—and ultimately shaped his career treating anxiety disorders. Along the way, David and Kevin explore why exposure is one of the most powerful treatments for anxiety, why motivation is essential for lasting change, and why courage doesn't require the absence of fear. This inspiring conversation is a reminder that the experiences we most want to avoid can sometimes become the doorway to profound growth. In This Episode Why David never intended to become a physician—and almost quit medical school. The childhood experiences that contributed to his lifelong blood phobia. How avoiding feared situations keeps anxiety alive. The extraordinary trauma case that unexpectedly became David's own exposure therapy. The surprising moment his fear disappeared completely. David's concept of the "200% cure"—when something you once feared becomes something you genuinely enjoy. Why therapists sometimes avoid using exposure therapy, even though it is one of the most effective anxiety treatments. Why motivation often determines whether people are able to face their fears. The role of acceptance and willingness during exposure. A moving reunion with Highland Hospital decades later through the surgeon who recently performed David's successful colon surgery. Key Takeaways Exposure works because avoidance keeps fear alive. The natural impulse is to escape what frightens us. Unfortunately, every act of avoidance teaches the brain that the feared situation is dangerous. When we stay in the feared situation long enough, anxiety eventually peaks and then naturally declines. The feared catastrophe rarely occurs, and our confidence grows. Courage means acting while you're afraid. Kevin highlights an important distinction: You don't have to eliminate fear before taking action. Real courage is moving forward even while your anxiety feels overwhelming. David's anxiety remained at a 100 out of 100 for nearly fifteen minutes before it suddenly dissolved. Anxiety cannot remain at its peak forever. <span style
The Man Who Was Fired Five Times How Letting Go of Blame Can Transform Your Life Hosts: Kevin Cornelius, LMFT Dr. David Burns What if the biggest obstacle to your happiness isn't your depression, your anxiety, or even the difficult people around you? What if it's the belief that everyone else needs to change first? In this powerful episode of the Feeling Good Podcast, Dr. David Burns and host Kevin Cornelius, LMFT, discuss one of David's favorite therapy stories from his recent Psychology Today article, "The Man Who Was Fired Five Times." What begins as the story of a brilliant computer programmer who can't keep a job becomes an unforgettable lesson in overcoming resistance, building meaningful relationships, and discovering the extraordinary power of humility. This episode is packed with practical TEAM-CBT techniques, fascinating therapy demonstrations, and one of the most inspiring recovery stories you'll ever hear. In This Episode A Brilliant Man Who Couldn't Keep a Job David introduces us to "Bhagwant" (a pseudonym), an exceptionally gifted computer programmer who sought treatment after being fired five times in just two years. Although he initially came to therapy complaining of low self-esteem, David quickly noticed something much deeper. Bhagwant believed: His coworkers were conspiring against him. His bosses failed to appreciate his intelligence. Other people were the source of nearly all his suffering. Despite his obvious brilliance, his habit of blaming others had become the greatest obstacle to both his career and his happiness. Why David Didn't Try to Help Him...At First Instead of immediately offering therapy techniques, David did something surprising. He told Bhagwant that perhaps they shouldn't work together. Why? Because therapy would require Bhagwant—not his coworkers—to do all of the changing. Rather than arguing with Bhagwant or trying to convince him he was wrong, David used one of the most powerful TEAM-CBT methods: Dangling the Carrot By joining Bhagwant's resistance instead of fighting it, David completely changed the emotional dynamic. Instead of saying: "You're the problem." He essentially said: "You're right—it seems terribly unfair that you'd have to do all the work when everyone else is causing the problem." That paradoxical response immediately dissolved Bhagwant's resistance. Moments later, he admitted something he had hidden from David: He hadn't merely been placed on probation. He had already been fired—for the fifth time. Why Specificity Matters One of the central themes of the episode is David's insistence on working with specific moments instead of vague labels. Rather than treating "low self-esteem" as the problem, David asks: What happened? Where were you? <li style="font-weight: 400
Episode 515: Ask David Parenting Meltdowns, Real-Time TEAM-CBT, and When Negative Thoughts Won't Stop What do you do when your child has a public meltdown—and you feel your own frustration rising just as quickly? And what if your mind feels so overwhelmed with anxious or depressive thoughts that completing a Daily Mood Log seems impossible? In this Ask David episode, Dr. David Burns is joined by host Kevin Cornelius, LMFT, and Psychiatrist/TEAM-CBT therapist Dr. Matt May to answer two thoughtful listener questions that many parents and therapy enthusiasts will recognize. Together, they demonstrate TEAM-CBT techniques live, showing not only what to do, but how to think differently in the moment. Along the way, they explore why changing your relationship with your own thoughts is often more important than trying to control other people's behavior. In This Episode Question 1: How Do I Use TEAM-CBT in Real Time When My Child Has a Meltdown? A listener describes taking his two young sons to the driving range when one child suddenly wants to leave while the other wants to stay. As frustration mounts, so do the automatic thoughts: "He's being a brat." "He's too immature for this." "He's ungrateful and whines all the time." Although the listener can challenge these thoughts later using a Daily Mood Log, he wonders: How can I use TEAM-CBT in the middle of an emotionally charged parenting moment? David, Kevin, and Matt explore this question through several live demonstrations. Topics Include: Why self-compassion comes before effective parenting The danger of "should" statements directed at yourself How beating yourself up actually makes it harder to respond compassionately Why practice outside emotional moments prepares you for success inside emotional moments Accepting your own imperfections as a parent Matt demonstrates how to respond to his own inner critic using Externalization of Voices, replacing self-criticism with realistic self-acceptance instead of perfectionism. Challenging "Shoulds" About Other People The conversation then shifts to another common trap: Trying to make other people different than they are. Together they examine several automatic thoughts parents commonly experience: "He's being a brat." "He's too immature." "He's ungrateful." David helps Matt and Kevin identify the cognitive distortions hiding inside these thoughts, including: Labeling Hidden should statements Unrealistic expectations Blaming Rather than arguing intellectually, they demonstrate TEAM-CBT methods such as: <li style="font-weight: 400;" aria-leve
514: Ask David w/ Dr. Matt May Schizophrenia, Resistance, TEAM's Future, and What Makes a Great Therapist In this thought-provoking Ask David episode, Dr. David Burns is joined by Kevin Cornelius, LMFT, and special guest Dr. Matt May, psychiatrist, TEAM-CBT therapist, and longtime colleague of Dr. Burns. Together, they tackle challenging listener questions about schizophrenia, emotional suffering, resistance to change, therapist training, and the future of psychotherapy. Along the way, the conversation becomes deeply personal as David reflects on the qualities that shaped the development of TEAM-CBT, his hopes and concerns for the future of psychotherapy, and the lessons he's learned after decades of clinical work. Our Special Guest: Dr. Matt May Kevin welcomes Dr. Matt May back to the podcast. Matt is a psychiatrist trained at Stanford who has worked closely with David for more than twenty years. Although trained in psychiatry, Matt explains that his work today focuses almost entirely on TEAM-CBT rather than medication management. David praises Matt as one of the most gifted therapists he has ever known, highlighting his warmth, compassion, humility, and clinical expertise. Question #1: Can TEAM-CBT Help the Negative Symptoms of Schizophrenia? A listener asks whether TEAM-CBT can help with the so-called "three A's" of schizophrenia: Apathy Avolition (severe lack of motivation) Anhedonia (loss of pleasure) or whether medication is the primary treatment. David's Response David challenges the assumptions behind the question itself. Rather than viewing people through the lens of diagnostic labels and symptoms, he emphasizes that TEAM-CBT begins by asking: "What would you like help with?" He argues that therapists often fall into the trap of acting like experts who believe they already know what a patient needs based on a diagnosis. TEAM-CBT takes the opposite approach, focusing on the individual person's goals, struggles, and hopes. David shares an early experience treating a patient with schizophrenia. Initially, he tried to challenge the patient's delusional beliefs directly through cognitive techniques. When the patient simply reinterpreted the evidence to support the delusion, David realized he was pursuing his own agenda rather than the patient's. The lesson: TEAM-CBT focuses on helping people with the problems they want help with—not on treating diagnostic labels. Key Takeaways Diagnosis does not define the person. People with schizophrenia may still want help with relationships, mood, habits, goals, or self-esteem. Effective therapy begins with understanding what matters to the individual. Humility is often more helpful than expertise. Question #2: What About Trauma, Brain Circuits, and "Underlying Vulnerabilities"? A listener asks whether present-moment thoughts are only part of the picture and whether deeper emotional circuitry, stress physiology, or network-level brain changes also contribute to emotional suffering. The listener also wonders whether cognitive therapy truly processes emotions like grief, fear, shame, and anger—or merely suppresses them. Matt's Perspective Matt offers a practical example from his own life. One afternoon he found himself flooded with depressive thoughts and self-critical feelings. He suddenly felt hopeless, inadequate, and discouraged. <span sty
Grandma's Snake Phobia The Real Cause of Her Anxiety Hosts: Kevin Cornelius, LMFT Dr. David Burns What if anxiety isn't the problem? What if anxiety is actually a message? In this fascinating episode, Dr. David Burns and Kevin Cornelius explore one of the most intriguing concepts in TEAM-CBT: the Hidden Emotion Technique. Using the memorable case of "Grandma's Snake Phobia," David explains why some forms of anxiety persist despite cognitive techniques, exposure exercises, and logical reassurance—and how uncovering an unrecognized emotional truth can sometimes lead to astonishingly rapid recovery. David shares the story of an elderly woman who suddenly developed a crippling fear of snakes despite spending her entire life comfortably around them. While most therapists might have focused on treating the phobia itself, David suspected that the anxiety was serving another purpose entirely. As the conversation unfolds, listeners learn how anxiety can function as a symbolic message from the subconscious mind, drawing attention to feelings, needs, conflicts, or desires that have been pushed out of awareness. David also shares the remarkable story of the patient whose panic attacks and nausea at work led him to first discover the Hidden Emotion Technique, as well as a deeply personal story involving his own struggle with anxiety and professional conflict. Along the way, David and Kevin discuss why highly anxious people are often some of the kindest and most compassionate individuals, how "niceness" can sometimes fuel anxiety, and why learning to honor our feelings may be one of the most important steps toward recovery. In This Episode Why traditional cognitive and behavioral approaches sometimes only partially relieve anxiety The origins of the Hidden Emotion Technique The surprising connection between anxiety and excessive "niceness" Why anxiety may be a symbolic message rather than a malfunction The case of Grandma's sudden snake phobia How unspoken fears about aging and dependence fueled anxiety Why simply becoming aware of a hidden emotion is not enough The critical action step that completes the Hidden Emotion Technique The story of the young woman whose job was literally making her sick How suppressed dreams and unexpressed desires can trigger anxiety symptoms David's personal experience discovering a hidden source of anxiety in his own life The role of conflict avoidance, people-pleasing, and "emotophobia" Why the hidden emotion is almost always happening in the present—not buried in childhood How anxious symptoms often function as symbolic clues to what's really wrong Practical ways to begin exploring hidden emotions in your own life Key Insights from David "Anxiety is our subconscious mind trying to get our attention and tell us something important that our conscious minds can't seem to see." "The ultimate fear in anxiety is often the fear of your own feelings." <p
The Myth of Slow Healing Why Rapid Recovery Is Possible Featuring Dr. David Burns and Kevin Cornelius, LMFT Many people believe emotional healing takes months—or even years. Therapists are often trained to expect gradual progress, and patients may assume lasting change requires prolonged struggle. But what if that assumption is wrong? In this episode, Dr. David Burns challenges one of the most deeply entrenched beliefs in mental health: the idea that meaningful psychological recovery must happen slowly. Drawing from his recent Psychology Today article, The Myth of Slow Healing, Dr. Burns explains why rapid emotional change is not only possible—it may actually reflect how the human brain naturally works. Through powerful clinical stories, personal reflections, and decades of research, Dr. Burns describes how depression, anxiety, panic, shame, and hopelessness can sometimes disappear in a matter of minutes when people discover and challenge the distorted thoughts driving their suffering. What Inspired This Article? Dr. Burns begins by sharing a formative experience from his psychiatric residency in Philadelphia. As a young psychiatrist, he noticed something troubling: psychotherapy often seemed to continue indefinitely, yet measurable recovery was rarely discussed. Therapists relied heavily on intuition, but almost no one was systematically measuring whether patients were actually improving. A walk through Fairmount Park sparked an insight that would transform his career. Thinking about professional basketball players improving through constant feedback—seeing whether the ball goes through the hoop—he wondered: How can therapists improve if they never measure whether their sessions are helping? This question led him to become one of the earliest advocates for routine outcome measurement in psychotherapy, eventually helping shape the development of TEAM-CBT's session-by-session assessment system. The Importance of Measurement Dr. Burns discusses his early use of the Beck Depression Inventory and the surprising lessons it taught him. Again and again, he discovered that his assumptions about how patients felt were often wrong: Some patients appeared severely depressed but reported relatively mild symptoms. Others seemed cheerful and functional while scoring in the severe range. These experiences reinforced an important lesson: Therapists need data, not guesses. By measuring depression, anxiety, empathy, and therapeutic effectiveness during every session, therapists can receive the feedback necessary to improve their work and help patients more effectively. The Caveman Effect: Why the Brain Can Change Instantly One of the episode's most memorable concepts is what Dr. Burns calls the "Caveman Effect." Borrowing an illustration from neuroscientist Mark Noble, he describes a prehistoric human hearing a twig snap behind him at dusk. The caveman immediately thinks: "A tiger is behind me!" Instantly, fear surges. Then he turns around and discovers the sound came from his wife stepping on a branch. In that moment, his fear vanishes. Not gradually. Not over six months. Instantly. Dr. Burns argues that this illustrates a fundamental principle: Thoughts create emotions. Wh
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This podcast features David D. Burns MD, author of "Feeling Good, The New Mood Therapy," describing powerful new techniques to overcome depression and anxiety and develop greater joy and self-esteem. For therapists and the general public alike!
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