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Creator Science with Jay Clouse: Daily Summaries Delivered
by Jay Clouse
The best creators experiment. Creator Science goes inside the strategies, systems, and decisions behind the world's most successful creator businesses. Practical, specific, and grounded in what's actually working today—not what used to. Each episode features candid conversations with creators like James Clear, Ali Abdaal, Tim Urban, and Codie Sanchez. We explore the experiments they're running, the data they're tracking, and the frameworks they use to grow their audience, build trust, and increase income. Jay Clouse is the founder of Creator Science, a multi-million-dollar creator business, and was named Content Entrepreneur of the Year by The Tilt in 2023. With 300+ episodes, this is growth for creators—down to a science.
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- 5 days ago1h 0m
#318: The $9/month membership earning more than $500k/year AND buying Smart Passive Income — Pt. 2 featuring Liz Wilcox
My guest is Liz Wilcox, the creator behind Email Marketing Membership — a $9/month newsletter template subscription she’s kept at the same price for six years, that now generates close to half a million dollars a year. Liz built the whole thing as a single parent with no support system and no reliable internet, working from library parking lots and Lowe’s lots during nap times. She launched in February 2021, kept the price at $9, maintained a 5% churn rate, and grew to over 4,400 paying members. She and her sister run the operation — no upsells, no masterminds, no group coaching. Just the membership. Then in April 2026, she quietly closed a deal to buy Smart Passive Income — the 18-year-old creator education brand Pat Flynn built from scratch. She spent five months operating as SPI’s director of community before anyone outside the deal knew it had happened. This is Part 2 of a two-part conversation. Last week, Pat and Matt told the seller’s story. This week, Liz tells the buyer’s. In this episode, we talk about: Why the $9 price point has worked for six years — and why she’ll never raise it How she grew a half-million-dollar membership without social media, using podcasts and a 50% affiliate program What had to be true before she’d pull the trigger on buying SPI How she’s thinking about merging EMM with the SPI community — and why she doesn’t have the answer yet By the end of this episode, you will understand how a $9 offer can compound into a half-million-dollar business — and what it actually looks like when someone buys a legacy brand and tries to honor it. Liz Wilcox Email Marketing Membership Smart Passive Income Episode 317: Pat Flynn & Matt Gartland — Part 1 Superfans by Pat Flynn Full transcript and show notes *** TIMESTAMPS Introduction The $9 membership The retention rate Low stakes for both sides The four thousand member math AI and the membership Who this model isn’t for Growing without social media Single parent, no backup plan Buying Smart Passive Income What made the deal happen Why she hasn’t cross-promoted yet Merging the two memberships *** RECOMMENDED NEXT EPISODE #317: Selling Smart Passive Income (And What We Can Learn From It) — Pt. 1 featuring Pat Flynn and Matt Gartland *** ASK CREATOR SCIENCE Submit your question here *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 📬 Creator Science Newsletter 🚀 Get CreatorHQ (creator operating system) 🧪 Join The Lab (private membership community) 🧞♂️ Get a Personalized Offer *** CONNECT 🐦 Connect on Twitter 📸 Connect on Instagram 💼 Connect on LinkedIn 📹 Subscribe on YouTube *** SPONSORS 💼 View all sponsors Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
- 1 weeks ago54 min
#317: Selling Smart Passive Income (And What We Can Learn From It) — Pt. 1 featuring Pat Flynn and Matt Gartland
This week I’m joined by two longtime friends — Pat Flynn and Matt Gartland. Pat is the founder of Smart Passive Income, the creator education brand he started in 2008 and ran for 18 years. Matt came on around 2018 — first as an advisor, then as CEO — and spent years making SPI operationally strong enough to stand without Pat at the center. They spun SPI out into a separate entity called SPI Media, pivoted from courses to community with recurring revenue, and quietly prepared the business for a sale they weren’t sure would ever happen. In September 2026, they announced that SPI had sold. The deal had closed five months earlier. The buyer is Liz Wilcox, an email marketing expert who spent those five months operating publicly as SPI’s “director of community” before anyone knew the deal had closed. The community doubled in size during that window. Part 2 is next week, with Liz. In this episode, we talk about: How Pat and Matt deliberately structured SPI over 8 years so it could be sold — including spinning out a new company, removing Pat’s face from the website, and making the community the hero Why Pat turned down multiple VC and PE offers worth more than the final sale price The deal mechanics: seller financing, no broker, 160 documents of due diligence, and how it closed in 6 months when deals like this typically fall apart What creators who operate entirely under their own name are missing when they eventually want to exit By the end of this episode, you will understand what it actually takes to build a creator business that could outlive you — and what the groundwork for an exit looks like years before anyone is thinking about it. Smart Passive Income Liz Wilcox — the buyer (she’s on next week’s episode) Deep Pocket Monster — Pat’s Pokémon YouTube channel (2.4M subscribers) Built to Sell by John Warrillow — the book that shaped their thinking on making a business sellable Superfans by Pat Flynn — his self-published book, part of the deal’s licensing terms Full transcript and show notes *** TIMESTAMPS The news The first seeds of the idea The VC and PE offers Building for optionality Running two companies at once Why real partnership is the unlock Who to hire first Why the negotiation wasn’t about money What seller financing actually means The due diligence process The transition strategy Part 2 preview: Liz Wilcox next week *** RECOMMENDED NEXT EPISODE #122: Pat Flynn and Matt Gartland – Courses, community, and the future of education *** ASK CREATOR SCIENCE Submit your question here *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 📬 Creator Science Newsletter 🚀 Get CreatorHQ (creator operating system) 🧪 Join The Lab (private membership community) 🧞♂️ Get a Personalized Offer *** CONNECT 🐦 Connect on Twitter 📸 Connect on Instagram 💼 Connect on LinkedIn 📹 Subscribe on YouTube *** SPONSORS 💼 View all sponsors Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
- 2 weeks ago39 min
#316: Kallaway’s EXACT System For Going Viral (Almost Every Time)
Meet Kallaway, the creator behind the Kallaway Marketing channel and the founder of Sandcastles — an AI research tool that helps creators find and validate viral video topics before they ever hit record. Kallaway started 4 businesses. All 4 failed for the same reason: no one knew who he was. No audience meant no customers, no leverage, no second chances. So he made it his mission to understand how audience growth actually works. He cracked short-form content at scale after years of building online businesses, and he built the research system he wished he’d had from the start. Now he has over a billion views, a 50% viral hit rate, and he built a tool to help other creators do the same. This episode is the full system. In this episode, we talk about: Content minutes — the framework for mapping how much trust your audience needs before they’ll buy at each price point on your offer ladder The modern content stack: why short-form and long-form both need to funnel into email, and why that’s the golden goose The 3 metrics that actually matter for content creators — ranked in order of importance, with views coming in third A live walkthrough of Sandcastles: channel watchlists, outlier score, deep video analysis, and how to use the MCP to run research through Claude By the end of this episode, you will have a clear research system for finding validated, high-trust video topics — and a framework for staying creative while using data to de-risk almost everything else. Book a free discovery call with 1of10 StrategyTry Sandcastles for free Full transcript and show notes *** TIMESTAMPS Intro to Kallaway Introducing “content minutes” The modern content stack Why you want a narrow ICP The 3 metrics that matter Sandcastles demo: building a channel watchlist from scratch Why you study mid-size creators, not mega-famous ones Deep video analysis: hook formula, storytelling structure, contrarian angle Kallaway’s research flow Solving structure and scripting problems using your own channel’s data Data-enabled creativity: the thesis behind the whole system *** RECOMMENDED NEXT EPISODE #303: Riley Brown — The AI Content Creator Who Doesn’t Write With AI *** ASK CREATOR SCIENCE Submit your question here *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 📬 Creator Science Newsletter 🚀 Get CreatorHQ (creator operating system) 🧪 Join The Lab (private membership community) 🧞♂️ Get a Personalized Offer *** CONNECT 🐦 Connect on Twitter 📸 Connect on Instagram 💼 Connect on LinkedIn 📹 Subscribe on YouTube *** SPONSORS 💼 View all sponsors Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
- 3 weeks ago1h 14m
#254: Caleb Ralston – Meet the Secret Strategist Behind Alex Hormozi and GaryVee [Greatest Hits]
Caleb Ralston is a strategist and brand builder for some of the biggest names in business. His breakthrough was back in 2018 when he grew GaryVee’s TikTok from 300k to 3.5 million followers in just 3 months. In 2022 he joined Alex and Leila Hormozi’s team as content employee #1, where he grew their audience from 1.2 million to 11.5 million. Caleb just doesn’t miss – and now that he’s out on his own, he’s here to help YOU. In this episode, you'll learn the content strategy he used, how to improve your content, and where to start if you're feeling overwhelmed. Full transcript and show notes Caleb's Website / Twitter / LinkedIn / YouTube / Instagram *** TIMESTAMPS The Secret Man Behind GaryVee and the Hormozi’s How Often Do the Top 1% Post? The Brand Journey Framework Being Intentional With Your Content Is It Possible to NOT Niche Down? Say the Same Things in Different Ways Tracking and Analyzing Data Maintaining Quality While Increasing Quantity What it Actually Takes to Perform like the 1% Where to Start Building a Personalized Team Agency vs Full Time vs Contractor Developing a Content Strategy Width Content vs Depth Content Scaling Trust Using Educational Content Best Call to Action Strategy Email and Web Traffic Strategy How Caleb is Going About Hiring His Own Team The Correct Way to Give Feedback to Your Team How to Take Inspiration from Others Which Platform Has the Biggest Opportunity Audio Content Strategy Why You Need to Collaborate with Others *** RECOMMENDED NEXT EPISODE → #175: Angus Parker – Ali Abdaal’s right-hand man shares a YouTuber’s guide to hiring. *** ASK CREATOR SCIENCE → Submit your question here *** WHEN YOU'RE READY 📬 Creator Science Newsletter 🚀 Get CreatorHQ (creator operating system) 🧪 Join The Lab (private membership community) 🧞♂️ Get a Personalized Offer *** CONNECT 🐦 Connect on Twitter 📸 Connect on Instagram 💼 Connect on LinkedIn 📹 Subscribe on YouTube *** SPONSORS 💼 View all sponsors and offers *** SAY THANKS 💜 Leave a review on Apple Podcasts 🟢 Leave a rating on Spotify Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
- Aug 18, 202659 min
315: Breaking Down Our $101,666 Launch: The Mechanics And Lessons Learned From Our Virtual Summit
Our first-ever 6-figure launch started with a cold email I didn’t respond to. Twice. The third time, I wrote back. A few months later, we ran a 3-day free virtual summit that drove $101,666 in revenue — with a $78,400 margin. This is the full breakdown of how it happened, what we’d do the same way again, and what we’d change. Joining me for this behind-the-scenes recap is Anna Reich, the integrator here on the Creator Science team. This was Anna’s first launch — 3 and a half months into the job — and she was right in the middle of all of it. We ran this summit in partnership with a third-party team called After Harvest, who pitched us on the whole concept via cold email and worked on a 15% performance-based fee. In this episode, we talk about: The full mechanics: $101,666 in revenue, $23,300 in costs, and the exact offer stack that got us there What we’d absolutely do the same — the VIP ticket, aggressive email volume, and the live pitch with a day-2 bonus What we’d do differently — a simpler structure, a new webinar platform, and building the presentations before everything else The 80/20 version: what a stripped-down, repeatable launch playbook actually looks like By the end of this episode, you will have a clear-eyed view of how a virtual summit launch actually works from the inside — with all the numbers, the chaos, and the lessons on the table. Work with Sean and the After Harvest team Build a Beloved Membership — 50% off the self-paced version Full transcript and show notes *** TIMESTAMPS Introduction: the first-ever 6-figure launch and what this episode covers Registration and attendance numbers: 3,145 registered, 1,000+ live on day 1 Revenue breakdown: $63K cohort, $9K upsell, $17K downsell, $11K VIP tickets Cost breakdown: After Harvest’s 15% deal, $1,800 in affiliates, $7,800 domain Timeline: cold email in February to contract in April to summit in June Things we’d do the same: VIP ticket, compelling web work, full offer stack Why the $47 VIP ticket was the biggest surprise of the whole launch The live day-2 pitch — 30 minutes, almost no drop-off, and why the bonus mattered Things we’d do differently: simpler structure, drop WebinarJam, build launch capability in-house The core mistake: building all the assets before locking the presentation content The 80/20 version: what to lock in before you open registration Skipping affiliates for high-ticket offers, and why one-click opt-ins backfired *** RECOMMENDED NEXT EPISODE #144: Bari Baumgardner – How to create the perfect 3-day event (IRL or virtually)#191: Breaking down my $60,723 product launch *** ASK CREATOR SCIENCE Submit your question here *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 📬 Creator Science Newsletter 🚀 Get CreatorHQ (creator operating system) 🧪 Join The Lab (private membership community) 🧞♂️ Get a Personalized Offer *** CONNECT 🐦 Connect on Twitter 📸 Connect on Instagram 💼 Connect on LinkedIn 📹 Subscribe on YouTube *** SPONSORS 💼 View all sponsors Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
- Aug 11, 202651 min
#296: Meet The Man Who Solved YouTube (With Data)—Richard from 1of10 [Greatest Hits]
Richard is the co-founder of 1of10, a research platform built by YouTube strategists, and his team has quietly been behind the scenes for some of the biggest channels on the platform—helping creators accumulate over 2 billion views through a repeatable, data-backed system. In this episode, Richard walks through his complete four-phase ideation system—audience identification, outlier research (using five distinct methods), idea remixing, and validation—and backs every step with real examples. We talk about what happens when the wrong audience floods your channel, why creators should double and triple down on formats that work, and how a single title change took one creator's video from 10,000 views to 150,000. He also shares data from 300,000+ YouTube outliers on the ideal title length (hint: shorter than you think) and where the sweet spots are for video duration across different niches. Save 20% on 1of10 using code JAY20 Schedule a 1of10 Strategy Call Full transcript and show notes *** TIMESTAMPS Where 80-85% of YouTube success comes from Phase 1: Audience When should you start a fresh channel instead of pivoting? The danger of going viral with the wrong audience Phase 2: Research Format vs. Interest Topic Method 1: Inside your own channel Tripling and quadrupling down Method 2: Inside your niche Method 3: Adjacent niches Method 4: Outside your niche The "Japanese Rule" format Method 5: External inspiration Phase 3: Remixing Escalation, inversion, and interest topic replacement Viral vectors: concepts that work across all niches Phase 4: Validation Optimal video duration by niche Why long videos are making a comeback Total Addressable Viewership Titles: Fear, Curiosity, and Desire as the three core drivers Data: Title Length Three methods for generating title angles Thumbnails: Composition and Elements It's never too late: title/thumbnail changes Live demo: 1of10 thumbnail generator The full 1of10 workflow *** RECOMMENDED NEXT EPISODE → #282: David Altizer — How to Make Great Thumbnails (For Non-Designers) *** ASK CREATOR SCIENCE Submit your question here *** WHEN YOU'RE READY 📬 Creator Science Newsletter 🚀 Get CreatorHQ (creator operating system) 🧪 Join The Lab (private membership community) 🧞♂️ Get a Personalized Offer *** CONNECT 🐦 Connect on Twitter 📸 Connect on Instagram 💼 Connect on LinkedIn 📹 Subscribe on YouTube *** SPONSORS 💼 View all sponsors Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
- Aug 4, 202645 min
#314: Getting Unstuck: The Three Hidden Roadblocks Blocking Your Progress with Cat Mulvihill
Most productivity advice operates in one of two categories: you’re missing a skill or system, or you have a mindset problem. Cat Mulvihill thinks both camps are right — and both are incomplete. There’s a third category that almost nobody is talking about, and she argues it’s the one most likely to be the actual culprit when you’re stuck. My guest this week is Cat Mulvihill, a speaker, trainer, accountability coach, and licensed Immunity to Change facilitator who has been leading workshops for more than 20 years. After being formally diagnosed with ADHD in 2024, she developed the Momentum Formula — a framework separating the reasons we fail to follow through into three distinct categories: logical, biological, and psychological. Kat is a longtime Lab member and led the second-highest-rated session at this year’s Lab Offline event in Boise. In this episode, we talk about: The three roadblocks to follow-through — and why the biological one is the category almost everyone overlooks How to diagnose which roadblock is actually keeping you stuck, and why the order you check them matters The “dreaded identity” — the hidden, subconscious version of yourself you’re afraid of becoming — and how it quietly kills follow-through Why knowing your tendency from Gretchen Rubin’s Four Tendencies framework changes which accountability strategies actually work for you By the end of this episode, you will have a concrete diagnostic framework for understanding why you’re not doing the things you know you should be doing — and what to try first. Cat Mulvihill — website and upcoming workshops The Four Tendencies quiz by Gretchen Rubin Immunity to Change by Robert Kegan and Lisa Lahey LinkedIn bookmarked search overview LinkedIn Instagram — @catmulvihill X — @catmulvihill The Momentum Experiment Podcast Full transcript and show notes *** TIMESTAMPS “Are people going to think I’m a sellout?” — the dreaded identity, cold open Introducing Kat: the Momentum Formula and why the biological roadblock gets missed The 3 roadblocks — logical, biological, psychological — and where brain chemistry fits in Diagnosing which roadblock you’re facing: why Jay thinks his problems are “just chemicals” How to check the roadblocks in order — and the patterns that signal it’s not logical A real Lab member example: when great systems still don’t get used The Four Tendencies (Gretchen Rubin): upholders, questioners, obligers, rebels The “dreaded identity” — the hidden psychological block most creators can’t see Working through all 3 roadblocks with a LinkedIn example Energy management and the biological roots: dopamine, blood sugar, sleep, environment matching How to work with obliger tendencies instead of against them The Immunity to Change framework and next steps for going deeper *** RECOMMENDED NEXT EPISODE #171: Nir Eyal – Writing books, persuasion vs. coercion, and how to be indistractable *** ASK CREATOR SCIENCE Submit your question here *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 📬 Creator Science Newsletter 🚀 Get CreatorHQ (creator operating system) 🧪 Join The Lab (private membership community) 🧞♂️ Get a Personalized Offer *** CONNECT 🐦 Connect on Twitter 📸 Connect on Instagram 💼 Connect on LinkedIn 📹 Subscribe on YouTube *** SPONSORS 💼 View all sponsors Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
- Jul 28, 202656 min
#313: How Tom Ross Doubled His Community Engagement and Retention With Training Pathways
Closing the doors to a membership is supposed to hurt signups. But one of Tom's clients did exactly that — closed it, added an application, doubled the price, then reopened. His next launch sold out in 4 minutes. Same community. Same people. Just different mechanics. My guest this week is Tom Ross, the founder of Learn.Community, where he helps community builders design learning experiences that actually stick. His clients have reached millions of people and generated tens of millions of dollars in revenue. Tom has been building online communities for 20 years, and he's been a member of The Lab since 2022. In this episode, we talk about: Why an application process might be the most underused retention lever in the membership world The “bacon medicine” framework for making your membership both sellable and sticky long-term Tom’s “delight, direct, connect” onboarding philosophy — and what almost every community gets wrong How he rebuilt his course into learning pathways, drove completion from 20% to 50%, and turned a siloed module into the main engine of community engagement By the end of this episode, you will understand exactly why most membership churn is decided before someone joins, and what to actually do about it. Learn.Community Tom's Website The Lab Full transcript and show notes *** TIMESTAMPS “People inherently don’t know what they don’t know” Tom's background: 20 years building communities, what we're covering Most retention problems start before someone joins — the targeting failure Application process as the biggest membership lever — and how to handle rejections kindly Closing doors creates demand: one client’s launch sold out in 4 minutes The “bacon medicine” approach to membership positioning Tom’s “delight, direct, connect” onboarding framework Responsive vs. linear onboarding — why static sequences break Learning pathways: reinventing the traditional course AI agents, deep worksheets, and vibe-coded SaaS tools inside the pathways Turning off course comments and routing engagement back into the community Real results: completion up from 20% to 50%, churn down, engagement way up *** RECOMMENDED NEXT EPISODE #260: Detailed Breakdown: Our First Offline Event (And What We’ll Do Differently Next Time) *** ASK CREATOR SCIENCE Submit your question here *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 📬 Creator Science Newsletter 🚀 Get CreatorHQ (creator operating system) 🧪 Join The Lab (private membership community) 🧞♂️ Get a Personalized Offer *** CONNECT 🐦 Connect on Twitter 📸 Connect on Instagram 💼 Connect on LinkedIn 📹 Subscribe on YouTube *** SPONSORS 💼 View all sponsors Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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About Creator Science with Jay Clouse
The best creators experiment. Creator Science goes inside the strategies, systems, and decisions behind the world's most successful creator businesses. Practical, specific, and grounded in what's actually working today—not what used to. Each episode features candid conversations with creators like James Clear, Ali Abdaal, Tim Urban, and Codie Sanchez. We explore the experiments they're running, the data they're tracking, and the frameworks they use to grow their audience, build trust, and increase income. Jay Clouse is the founder of Creator Science, a multi-million-dollar creator business, and was named Content Entrepreneur of the Year by The Tilt in 2023. With 300+ episodes, this is growth for creators—down to a science.
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