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WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT?: Daily Summaries Delivered
by Ayana Elizabeth Johnson
A show about climate solutions, about what we need to do to address the climate crisis, and how to make those things happen — from changing laws, to electrifying buildings, to improving fashion and media. Each week an expert guest joins host Dr. Ayana Elizabeth Johnson to break it down, delightfully, and help us all envision what getting right on climate looks like, so we can reel that vision into reality. ayanaelizabeth.substack.com
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- Today1h 17m
An election debrief on climate and possibility 🌎💙
So much to discuss. SO MANY WINS! This much more expansive sense of possibility feels magnificent. And doesn’t this question of “what if we get it right?” feel a little less naïve now?There’s no guest this episode, just Bill and Ayana reveling and digesting. You’ll hear us beginning to distill lessons on everything from data centers and climate hushing; to organizing and volunteerism; to not giving up on the South, and what it means to meet the moment.We talked about the big victories we’re most excited about and the losses that stung. It was a delight to reflect on the candidates we had on as guests this season — who all won their races! Also, the down ballot wins that will help us accelerate the clean energy transition: Texas Railroad Commission! Arizona Corporation Commission! Georgia Public Utility Board!We shared our worry about the Bipartisan American Affordability and Jobs Act (AKA the permitting bill). Tl;DR it’s not really better than the status quo, so we should wait and renegotiate something better in the new Congress.On this we are clear: Organizing matters. Showing up matters. THANK YOU to the many who made these wins possible. 👏 Some efforts we've highlighted: Third Act, Environmental Voter Project, Patagonia’s 11.2 Million Vote Project, Invest in America PAC, and Lead Locally.Let these numerous and delicious victories, this dramatically expanded sense of what is possible, whet your appetite for more and deeper civic engagement. And listen to the end (or subscribe to the newsletter) to find out who won the clean energy mascot competition. _____That’s a wrap on this midterm election season of the podcast 💫We had so much fun gabbing every week, making this show for you, with our wonderful team. If you missed some earlier episodes, run it back. Lotsa goodies in there for ya.Credits: This episode and the entire season was produced by Remoy Philip and Ayana, with support from Jenisha Shrestha. Graphic design by Holly Griffin of Design Hungry, social media support from Feeling Seen Studio, and original music by Emma Munger._____Mentioned in this Episode:* A Very Expensive Night for Big Oil, by Emily Atkin, Heated. The U.S. oil and gas industry spent at least $182 million trying to elect Republicans.* The Invest in Tomorrow Coalition PAC has won or are winning at 12 or 13 of the 18 they invested in. (Here is our interview with their founder Tom Matzzie)* Adam Hamilton and Taking Back Religion from the Right, by Bill McKibben for The New Yorker* Bipartisan American Affordability and Jobs Act of 2026 (BAAJA). If passed, the best-case emissions reduction from BAAJA is 3.8% in 2040, or only 2.4% from 2027 to 2040. Or as Abbie Dillen/Earthjustice put it, What Will BAAJA Do? Whatever the Trump Administration Wants.* A nationwide backlash against data centers erupts at the polls, The Washington Post. Again, Abbie helps us parse this with her piece Voters Have Spoken: No Dirty Data Centers that connects the fight against data centers to the fight to block the BAAJA which would speed the proliferation of them._____Enjoying this podcast? Spread the word! 🗣️To help more people find these conversations, review 🌟 an
- 3 days ago1h 5m
Deep sea mining, floating data centers, and a new species of octopus 🐙👷🏻 with Dr. Diva Amon and Ben Wolkon
Today’s episode is a reprieve from the midterm election. We’ll take your mind off the fate of our democracy for an hour to instead explore the wonders of the deep sea and risks/promise of ocean industrialization. And we’ll be back in a few days with the final episode of this midterm election season, a debrief of election outcomes and what they might mean for the planet and all species who share it.Today’s episode was recorded live in September during Climate Week NYC, as part of the Science & Society series I’ve curated/hosted with the Science Studios at Pioneer Works for years. The title of the event was “The Ocean Frontier” and the description read:The clean energy and tech booms are heading offshore: wind farms, deep-sea mining for rare earth minerals, floating solar panels, and even floating data centers cooled by seawater. Beneath the engineering lie thornier questions: who owns a public resource, who profits from it, who governs it, and what happens to the ecosystems in the way?The ocean holds a key to our climate future—if we act wisely.For grappling with these BIG topics, our guests are Dr. Diva Amon (Trinidadian deep-sea biologist) and Ben Wolkon (climate investor whom you may remember from the “Investing in our Climate Future 💸” episode back in Season 2).Dr. Diva Amon is a Caribbean marine biologist dedicated to expanding understanding of the ocean’s least-known ecosystems – the deep ocean and high seas — and how human activities are reshaping these fragile ecosystems. She’s a National Geographic Explorer and TV host, and co-founder and director of SpeSeas, a Caribbean-based non-profit expanding marine science, education, and advocacy. Diva has led submarine expeditions to some of the least-explored places on Earth, authored over 80 scientific publications, and worked with the UN on developing nations’ rights to their water resources.Ben Wolkon is the founder and CEO of Avarna, a firm focused on commercializing emerging energy and industrial technologies. Previously, he co-founded and co-led the venture capital firm MUUS Climate Partners, backing more than 30 climate-focused companies. Ben started his career as an independent solar energy developer, initially selling solar projects out of his college apartment, and continues to make early bets on climate solutions, including offshore renewable energy infrastructure.Our conversation covered everything from the environmental impacts of deep sea mining, to ocean governance and the ocean carbon cycle, and even the idea of floating data centers. Plus, our favorite ocean creatures - and one that Diva discovered! From wonder, to worry, and back again, let’s dive in._____Mentioned in this episode:About 30% of the carbon that we emit is captured by the ocean, and 90% of the heat we’ve trapped with greenhouse gases.UN Report: Limiting Overshoot: Navigating exceedance of 1.5°C and pathways toward return (Ayana’s summary)Electrochemical ocean carbon dioxide removalOver 70% of the ocean remains unmapped, only 0.001% of the deep seafloor has been seen by humansAbout 90% of the animals that we were coming across in the Pacific Ocean, in a place called the Clarion-Clipperton Zone are brand-new species to science.Pathalassa: company working on floating data center.BMW, Samsung, Volvo and other major companies <a target="_blank" href="ht
- 1 weeks ago57 min
Climate supremacy and the spiritual battle over AI 🤖 with Naomi Klein
First, a question: Are you helping ensure that pro-Earth candidates win these midterm elections? If not, scroll down to the “Calls to Action” section for some ideas and links. Denizens of Earth, let’s win this thing!_____This episode’s guest is icon Naomi Klein, one of the most important authors and activists of our time. She helps us all better connect the dots between democracy, fascism, environment, and justice. Her new book, End Times Fascism and the Fight for the Living World, co-authored with Astra Taylor, needs to be bumped to the very top of your to-read list, the top of your nightstand stack.Our conversation covered everything from data center resistance and “climate supremacy”, to our right to an uncluttered night sky, and disaster capitalism. We also talked about what we can learn from activist movements, like Standing Rock and Memphis’s fights against pipelines and for clean water. And we really got into it on AI and data centers. _____There is so much pontificating on AI and data centers. To supplement this episode, a few resources I’ve found quite helpful:* Kate Gage's new newsletter decoding the jargon: Political AI Field Guide: Factions and Beliefs, and AI Political Field Guide: Terminology Decoder (September 2026 Edition)* A year in, the data center/AI battle starts to clarify, by Bill McKibben* AI’s climate problem is worse than we thought, by Emily Atkin* A warning about ‘model welfare’ by Mustafa Suleyman (who is also interviewed in my book, What If We Get It Right? )* AI and the Enshittification Era with Cory Doctorow, on The Weekly Show with John Stewart podcast_____CALLS TO ACTION: Get out the vote! ✅1 week until Election Day. What can you do this week so that you don’t have any regrets on November 4th? Some options:* VOTE! 🗳️ (Obviously.) Early voting is underway. See voting dates for your state here. Get a preview of your ballot at ballotpedia.org.* Check out candidate endorsements from Lead Locally, League of Conservation Voters and Working Families Party. Make sure to vote all the way down your ballot.* Pick a candidate you like, go to their website and click the volunteer button. They will put you to work! Knocking doors and talking to voters about close races is super important.* Encourage your friends and family to make a plan to vote. Here’s a great tool from Patagonia to help.* Volunteer with Third Act, the amazing organization Bill founded and leads.* Join me and so many amazing volunteers to phone bank with Environmental Voter Project and help make sure all Earth lovers show up to vote.* Note: In some states it’s not too late to register to vote — and some places let you register to vote on Election Day._____Mentioned in this episode:* More than 1,600 institutions have divested more than $41 trillion from fossil fuel stocks.* Memphis Community Against Pollution, led by KeShaun Pearson* <a target="_blank" href=
- 2 weeks ago41 min
Clean energy transition in the Land of Enchantment 🏜️ with Deb Haaland
Before diving into today’s episode, a tiny celebration 🎉: The What If We Get It Right? podcast reached 500,000+ downloads! THANK YOU for listening. More great interviews coming your way. To support the show (1) follow and review 🌟, (2) tell your people to tune in, and, if you can, (3) become a paid subscriber._____Our guest for today’s episode is Deb Haaland, one of the most remarkable figures in American politics, currently running to be the Governor of New Mexico. She is a member of the Pueblo of Laguna and a 35th generation New Mexican. Most recently, Haaland was the Secretary of the Interior for the Biden administration, running of one of the largest departments in the federal government. There, among many other things, she made sure big new tracts of land like Bears Ears and Escalante and Utah were added to the public land system. She has also served as a Congresswoman, and chaired the New Mexico Democratic party. Often, she has been the first Native American or first the Native woman in the positions she has held. In this conversation, we talk about her vision for New Mexico’s clean energy transition, a state where half the state's budget comes from oil and gas. We cover everything from water conservation to invasive species management, and the inherent value of nature and majestic landscapes. We also talk about the importance of being a good steward of Earth for future generations — and why we need to hire more lawyers. This conversation got into the nitty gritty (as we do), but above all had lots of heart. _____CALLS TO ACTION: Get out the vote! ✅Local and state leadership matter so much for implementation of climate solutions. So make sure to vote all the way down your ballot! And it’s definitely not too late pick a candidate, roll up your sleeves and help them win. Some resources for channeling your election/climate anxiety into productive actions:* VOTE! 🗳️ Early voting has started in many states. Bill and I have already voted. Have you? Have your friends & family? (Get a preview of your ballot at ballotpedia.org)* Check out candidate endorsements from Lead Locally, League of Conservation Voters and Working Families Party.* Volunteer with Third Act, the amazing organization Bill founded and leads.* Pick a candidate you like, go to their website and click the volunteer button. They will put you to work! Knocking doors and talking to people in your community is super important.* Encourage your friends and family to make a plan to vote. Here’s a great tool from Patagonia to help.* Note: In some states it’s not too late to register to vote — and some places let you register to vote on Election Day._____As you know by now, I’m a BIG fan of Environmental Voter Project. Join me and so many amazing volunteers to phone bank and help make sure all Earth lovers show up to vote. In my election freakout, I’ve signed up to host 2 more shifts. If these times don’t work for you, sign up for EVPs many other shifts. RSVP here._____Mentioned in this episode* New Mexico produces half its electricity from the sun and the wind, and has the second-biggest crude oil production, and the fourth-largest natural gas output in the country.* New Mexico’s Energy Transition Act passed in 2019 to reach net zero by 2050* Native
- 2 weeks ago50 min
Pensions, solidarity, and making polluters pay 💸⚖️ with Brad Lander
Interviewing politicians can be dull. Just heaps of trite talking points and evasive answers. But when you get the chance to sit down with someone who has not only a strong moral compass but a backbone to match, and who has been not only determined but also creative in using their positions to help advance climate solutions, it’s a delight. Our guest this episode, Brad Lander, is, as we say in his home borough of Brooklyn, a real one.Brad is running for Congress (soon to be repping part of NYC on Capitol Hill), and he ran for mayor in this last cycle against/with Zohran Mamdani. But it was his work as Comptroller of NYC that solidified his reputation as a climate champion. This conversation covers everything from divesting pension funds to making polluters pay for climate solutions, to affordability and accountability, and from investment banks to financed emissions. Plus, a glimpse into what Brad Lander aims to do on climate once he’s in Congress. Can not wait._____Phone banking ☎️ w/ Environmental Voter ProjectWednesdays at 12p ET we call environmentalists and nudge them to the polls. Only 2 of these left until Election Day! If 12p on Wednesdays doesn’t work for you, I will miss you, but sign up for EVPs many other shifts.👇🏽_____Mentioned in this episode* Divesting New York City pension funds, led by NYC Comptroller’s Office* In the last decade, 60 banks have provided $7.9 trillion in financing to fossil fuel companies, with the top four banks alone — JPMorgan Chase, Citi, Wells Fargo, and Bank of America — providing more than $1.64 trillion.* NY Climate Change Superfund Act - A bill to make polluters pay $75 billion over 25 years for climate change adaptation.* Climate Leadership and Community Protection Act.Credits: This episode was produced by Remoy Philip and me (Ayana), with support from Jenisha Shrestha. Original music by Emma Munger. Graphic design by Holly Griffin of Design Hungry, and social media support from Feeling Seen Studio._____Enjoying the show? Share it, spread the word!And review 🌟 and follow What If We Get It Right? — that helps more people find us and these timely conversations. Thank you for listening. 💛 Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe
- 3 weeks ago1h 5m
Rewind: What climate leadership looks like in Maine 🌲, with Hannah Pingree
Governors are especially critical given the catastrophic presidential scenario. So today we’re re-sharing a conversation recorded in spring with Maine’s democratic gubernatorial candidate Hannah Pingree. (“Gubernatorial” is too good a word not to use!)Hannah is is a longtime public servant and climate leader from a small island off the midcoast of Maine. She served in the Maine House of Representatives from 2002 until she was termed out in 2010. (Shoutout to term limits!) After that, she served on her local school board and managed a sustainable housing nonprofit. And most recently, from 2019 to 2025, she was founding director of Governor’s Office of Policy Innovation and the Future. There, she co-chaired the Maine Climate Council and oversaw development of Maine’s ambitious climate plan, called “Maine Won’t Wait.”Hannah said to me, “I want to be one of the best climate governors in the country.” Honestly, in this era of “climate hushing” it’s refreshing to hear a politician say that.In this interview, we cover everything from AI data centers, to clean energy, affordability, bi-partisan climate progress, aquaculture, PFAS (aka forever chemicals), working waterfronts, and the critical role of governors in this era of excruciating federal rollbacks.This conversation had an odd effect on me. I found it... relaxing? To hear a politician speaking competently, calmly, clearly, practically and with nuance about climate policy was so soothing, reassuring. More of this please!Next week we have for two more conversations for ya with climate candidates running for key leadership positions. Stay tuned._____CALLS TO ACTION: Get out the vote! ✅Local and state leadership matter so much, including for implementation of climate solutions. So make sure to vote all the way down your ballot! Wherever you live, it’s definitely not too late pick a candidate, roll up your sleeves and help them win. I’ll be knocking doors for pro-Earth candidates in Maine this weekend. You can just reach out to a campaign via their website and sign up to volunteer.Some resources:* VOTE! Early voting has started in many states. Bill and I have already voted. Have you?* Get a preview of your ballot at ballotpedia.org* Check out candidate endorsements from Lead Locally, League of Conservation Voters and Working Families Party.* Encourage your friends and family to make a plan to vote. Here’s a great tool from Patagonia to help.* Note: In some states it’s not to late to register to vote — some places let you register to vote on Election Day.Also, you know by now, I’m a BIG fan of Environmental Voter Project. Join me on Wednesdays at 12p ET to help make sure all Earth lovers show up to vote. If 12p on Wednesdays doesn’t work for you, I will miss you, but sign up for EVPs many other shifts.👇🏽Friends don’t let friends not vote. Home stretch, y’all._____Credits: This episode was produced by Remoy Philip and me (Ayana), with support from Jenisha Shrestha. Original music by Emma Munger. Graphic design by Holly Griffin of Design Hungry, and social media support from Feeling Seen Studio.Enjoying the show? Share it around, spread the word! And review 🌟 and follow What If We Get It Right? — that helps more people find us and these timely conversations.Thank you for listening. 💛 To support our work, consider becoming a paid subscriber: ayanaelizabeth.substack.com. Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe
- 3 weeks ago58 min
A critical local election in the sunniest state 🌅 with Clara Pratte
This week and next we’ve got two episodes for you, all four are conversations with climate candidates — running for local office, for governor, and for congress. In other words, a sampling of people we’d love to be calling the shots in the halls of power, and a glimpse of the good changes they would lead us toward. Home stretch to Election Day, Earthlings. 🌎 Get involved — no regrets on Nov 4th!Our guest this episode is Clara Pratte, candidate for Arizona Corporation Commission (aka Public Utility Commission (PUC), aka undersung local government entity that’s actually extremely important to the clean energy transition... as this episode explains).Clara is an Arizona-born member of the Navajo Nation, and champion of energy independence and jobs in tribal and rural communities. She is co-founder of Navajo Power (a utility-scale and residential electricity provider) and owner of several small businesses. Clara has also served under three U.S. presidents and four Navajo Nation presidents. This episode covers everything from the critical roles of PUCs like the Arizona Corporation Commission (including electricity rates and power plant permits, and in some cases drinking water and railroad safety), to ensuring a just clean energy transition in the Navajo Nation, how the sunniest state can embrace solar power, and why it’s critical to vote all the way down the ballot![You can preview what your ballot will look like at Ballotpedia.]Bonus: Listen to the end for Bill’s reactions to more of the clean energy mascot ideas you all submitted for our earlier “Don’t mess with solar” episode with Tom Mattzie._____Enjoying our podcast? Share it, spread the word!Review 🌟 and follow What If We Get It Right? on your platform of choice — that helps get the algorithm on our side so more people find these timely conversations. We’ve released 8 episodes so far, with a bunch more coming through Election Day. Thank you for listening — and sharing. 💛_____Mentioned in this episode* Arizona Corporation Commission* Project Blue: proposal for data centers in Tuscon* Lead Locally: helping elect local climate champions* The Serviceberry by Robin Wall KimmererCredits: This episode was produced by Remoy Philip and me (Ayana), with support from Jenisha Shrestha. Original music by Emma Munger. Graphic design by Holly Griffin of Design Hungry, and social media support from Feeling Seen Studio. And special thanks to Whit Jones from Lead Locally for recommending and connecting us with Clara._____Phone banking ☎️ w/ Environmental Voter ProjectIf you don’t know what to do with your election/democracy anxiety, join us for phone banking! Every Wednesday at 12p ET until Election Day (or many other shifts times available). Sign up: environmentalvoter.org/AEJ Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe
- Oct 6, 202657 min
Climate villains, TikTokers, grandkids, and the messages that break through 📢 with Jamie Henn
As we know, facts are not enough to win on climate — we need the right messages and the right messengers. So for this episode, we’re taking a step back to talk about climate communication with one of the very best in the biz, Jamie Henn. We cover everything from naming the villains, TikTok against Arctic drilling, Beyoncé as a clean energy acronym, and the under-leveraged power of grandkids.Jamie is a climate organizer, activist, and ace communications strategist — and Bill’s former student! He has been a driving force behind some of the most successful climate campaigns of the last decade, including the fight against the Keystone XL pipeline, the People’s Climate March, the fossil fuel divestment movement, the ExxonKnew campaign, the Global Climate Strikes, and more.Now, Jamie is founder and executive director of Fossil Free Media, a nonprofit communications lab that supports the movement to end fossil fuels and make polluters pay.Bonus: Listen to the end for Bill’s reactions to the various clean energy mascot ideas you all submitted for our earlier “Don’t mess with solar” episode with Tom Mattzie._____CALLS TO ACTION ✅Phone banking ☎️ w/ Environmental Voter ProjectIf you don’t know what to do with your election/democracy anxiety, join us for phone banking! Every Wednesday at 12p ET until Election Day (or many other shifts available). RSVP: environmentalvoter.org/AEJ11.2 Million Vote Project 🗳️ w/ PatagoniaPatagonia launched a project to get the 11.2 million environmentalists who sat out the 2024 election to actually vote this time around. (Data per Environmental Voter Project.) They’ve made it easy to contact your unlikely-to-vote friends and family and get them the info they need to cast their ballots. Do it here: patagonia.org/elections_____Mentioned in this episode:* Bob Hope (ye olde talk show host) was paid by the fossil fuel industry to popularize the slogan “now we’re cooking with gas.” (Factcheck: In the episode I said it was Johnny Carson, oops.)* Over 90% of the new electricity generation in the US in 2025 came from solar, wind, and batteries storage.* 350.org* Fossil Free Media* Sun Day* Make Polluters Pay: Campaign to hold fossil fuel companies accountable for climate damages. (Instagram: @PollutersPay)* Lead Locally: Helping elect local climate champions* Environmental Voter Project: Getting environmentalists to voteCredits: This episode was produced by Remoy Philip and me (Ayana), with support from Jenisha Shrestha. Original music by Emma Munger. Graphic design by Holly Griffin of Design Hungry, and social media support from Feeling Seen Studio._____Enjoying the show? Share it around, spread the word! And review 🌟 and follow What If We Get It Right? on your platform of choice — that helps more people find us and these timely conversations.Thank you for listening. 💛 Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe
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About WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT?
A show about climate solutions, about what we need to do to address the climate crisis, and how to make those things happen — from changing laws, to electrifying buildings, to improving fashion and media. Each week an expert guest joins host Dr. Ayana Elizabeth Johnson to break it down, delightfully, and help us all envision what getting right on climate looks like, so we can reel that vision into reality. ayanaelizabeth.substack.com
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