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by David Barnard, Jacob Eiting
Interviews with the experts behind the biggest apps in the App Store. Hosts David Barnard and Jacob Eiting dive deep to unlock insights, strategies, and stories that you can use to carve out your slice of the 'trillion-dollar App Store opportunity'.
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- 2 days ago41 min
What 80M users taught Flo about A/B testing — Mike Charniatsou
On the podcast: separating paywall wins from business wins, the A/B test that lost twice before delivering a 23% lift, and why you should borrow ideas, not steal solutions.Top Takeaways:🕰️ A subscription doesn't have to start in week one 40% of subscriptions arriving more than six months after install is a healthy number when you track how each user’s needs change and sell only when something new is worth paying for.🧭 Paywall conversion is not your monetization strategy A subscription is a lifecycle (trial start, activation, retention), and a conversion win at one step of the funnel can still be a business loss.🧮 Check whether your A/B wins actually compounded Add up a year of 5–10% reported uplifts, then ask whether the business grew by that much; the gap is the share of wins that weren't real.🔎 When a test fails, iterate on evidence, not on an explanation An onboarding step lost 10% twice while the team guessed at design fixes; the postmortem found 75% of users hit an "oops, sorry" screen, and the rewrite won 23%.📣 Marketing finds the unmet need before product does An ad narrative that over-performed in the existing funnel became its own onboarding branch, and a strong revenue driver, once product built for it.🧩 Borrow the idea, not the solution A paywall pattern that other teams reported as a 10% win was copied pixel for pixel and did nothing, and the Blinkist-style reminder paywall and the trial toggle both failed at two different companies.About Mike Charniatsou:🗣️Senior Growth Product Manager at Flo Health, the world’s leading period and ovulation tracker, empowering over 400 million women globally to take control of their health. With 77 million monthly active users, including 25% of US women, Flo has become a trusted partner in women's health.👋 Linkedin🖥️Learn more about Flo Health💼 Flo Health CareersFollow us on X: David Barnard - @drbarnardJacob Eiting - @jeitingRevenueCat - @RevenueCatSubClub - @SubClubHQEpisode Highlights:[00:00] Introducing Mike Charniatsou of Flo[01:48] Scaling Luna to Nearly $6M ARR[02:52] Why Mike Left a CPO Role to Build Again at Flo[04:25] Building Web Onboarding Without a Playbook[06:27] The Hidden Cost of Web-to-App Funnels[07:00] How Growth Changes From Early Stage to Flo’s Scale[08:28] What Ad Budget Scale Unlocks for Experimentation[09:54] Turning a Meta Ad Insight Into a New Onboarding Goal[12:35] Easing the Tension Between Marketing and Product Teams[13:52] How Flo Shares Insights Through Weekly Syncs[14:36] Why Paywall Conversion Is Not Your Monetization Strategy[16:31] When a Hard Paywall Win Led to a Spike in Refunds[17:45] How to Tell a Short-Term Win From a Business Win[19:19] Balancing Freemium Users and Monetization[20:12] Why 40% of Flo’s Subscriptions Come After Six Months[23:02] Building Monetization Around a Woman’s Life Stages[24:59] Cherishing the Customer Relationship[26:29] Measuring Free Trial Experiments With Proxy Events[28:22] Learning From Failed Experiments With Evidence[29:41] The Perimenopause Step That Went From a 10% Loss to a 23% Win[33:25] Why Flo Runs Blackout Tests[34:14] Borrowing Ideas Instead of Copying Solutions[36:51] Why the Blinkist Paywall Failed at Flo and Luna[37:27] The Problem With Adding Streaks to Everything[39:21] Mike’s Biggest Win of the Year[39:54] Why Partner Mode Failed in Onboarding[40:43] Growth Would Be Easier If....More content from the RevenueCat family:👉 Launched – Our sister show that features indie app developers and solo creators about what it really takes to ship something new into the world: https://www.youtube.com/@LaunchedFM👉StartApp School – Practical courses on monetization, growth, acquisition, and everything else that turns an app into a business. Completely free: https://www.startapp.school/👉RevenueCat blog: Monthly plans might be your best option: https://www.revenuecat.com/blog/growth/monthly-subscriptions-when-to-offer/👉Web-to-app funnels: the complete 2026 guide: https://www.revenuecat.com/blog/growth/web-to-app-funnels/
- 2 weeks ago1h 1m
How Praktika Built a Profitable $50M ARR AI Business — Adam Turaev, Praktika
On the podcast: the month they went from $1M to $12M ARR, selling Brazil on career upgrades instead of English lessons, and why you shouldn’t tell influencers how to do their job.Top Takeaways:🔍 Filter creators by reach, not following Under 5,000 followers but tens of millions of views means the algorithm has already picked them and nobody else has priced them yet.🙅 Don't tell influencers how to do their job The creator video the CEO didn't like did 30M views across three platforms and took ARR from $1M to $12M in a single month.🧱 Keep the creator program and paid acquisition as separate streams Creators keep generating angles the in-house team has run out of, and paid reproduces whichever video goes viral.🎓 Staff the program with ex-creators, not managers The influencer lead and the country coaches were all making videos first, and each coach now rotates a roster of 20 or 30 creators.💼 Sell the outcome, not the activity A $100-a-year subscription sold in a market with weak purchasing power because the claim was a better job, not better English.🚧 Growth can be unhinged; the product can't Cursing avatars went viral upper-funnel, then users rejected them inside the app, so product rules now live on a one-pager whilst creators keep almost unlimited freedom.About Adam Turaev:🗣️ Co-founder of Praktika, an immersive language learning app with generative AI Avatars, empowering the next billion learners to overcome language barriers and seize new opportunities.👋 Linkedin💬Adam Turaev on X🖥️Learn more about PraktikaFollow us on X: David Barnard - @drbarnardJacob Eiting - @jeitingRevenueCat - @RevenueCatSubClub - @SubClubHQEpisode Highlights:[00:00] Introducing Adam Turaev of Praktika[01:26] Why Adam Left Enterprise Chatbots for Language Learning[04:22] Betting on Conversational AI Before the LLM Boom[06:45] How Early Chatbot Experience Shaped Praktika[08:53] Competing With Duolingo by Targeting Career Growth[10:03] Why Brazil Became Praktika’s First Target Market[12:23] Selling Better Jobs Instead of English Lessons[14:07] Building AI Language Tutors Before the Technology Was Ready[18:41] Will Real-Time AI Translation Make Language Learning Obsolete?[21:07] Why Speaking a Language Is About More Than Translation[23:09] What Separates an AI Coach From ChatGPT Voice[26:10] Why the Job to Be Done Should Drive Product Decisions[29:16] How AI Could Help Human Tutors Reach More Students[30:51] Why Praktika Uses Animated Avatars to Reduce Speaking Anxiety[34:19] Finding Micro-Influencers With High Reach and Low Followings[37:15] The Correction Video That Took Praktika From $1M to $12M ARR[40:19] Replicating a Viral Format Across Countries and Creators[41:49] Hiring Gustavo and Giving Creators Freedom[43:58] Building an Influencer Program With Over 100 Creators[46:41] How Praktika Pays Creators and Turns Wins Into Paid Ads[48:47] When Unhinged AI Avatars Backfired Inside the App[50:36] Setting Different Creative Boundaries for Growth and Product[52:25] Reaching $50M ARR With a Team of Just Over 40[53:14] Building Proactive AI Coaches Beyond Language Learning[55:13] Balancing AI Inference Costs With Product Quality[58:04] Why Switching From Flutter to Native iOS Improved Conversion[01:00:03] Praktika’s Biggest Failed Experiment With AI Avatars[01:00:35] Why Copycat Competitors Make Growth Harder
- Oct 14, 20261h 9m
How Cal AI turned creators into a growth machine — Jake Castillo, Cal AI
On the podcast: the “magic moment” test for whether creators can sell your app, the one number that caps what you can pay them, and why cloning hit apps like Cal AI rarely pays off.Top Takeaways:🥊 Choose creator niches by what the viewer wants, not what the creator does UFC fighters track every calorie, but their audience is on the couch with pizza, and thousands of dollars of posts produced no download spike.✨ Creator content only sells an app that has a magic moment A scan-analyze-result sequence made viewers do a double take; without that, the app’s appearance in a creator’s video reads as an ad and never goes viral.🧮 Never pay a CPM above your revenue per thousand views, and go flat rate Break-even is set by a creator's average views, and the profit sits in the one post that goes mega viral, which a flat fee lets you keep.🏷️ Keep the price low on purpose when the goal is to be the app everyone has $30 a year, among the cheapest in the category, was a deliberate choice to be the easiest app to buy rather than the most profitable per user.🧬 Sharing the playbook publicly is safe when the edge is a thousand tested details The clones that copied a public growth story were never going to catch up with a team that was obsessed with small compounding improvements.About Jake Castillo:🚀Co-founder of Cal AI, the AI-powered app for easy calorie tracking. Snap a photo, scan a barcode, or describe your meal and get instant calorie and nutrient info👋 Linkedin💬 Jake Castillo on XFollow us on X: David Barnard - @drbarnardJacob Eiting - @jeitingRevenueCat - @RevenueCatSubClub - @SubClubHQEpisode Highlights:[00:00] Why the truth is always in the comments[00:29] How Jake met Zach and joined Cal AI[06:11] The creator partnership that changed Cal AI's trajectory[09:45] Why fitness creators were the perfect channel[13:57] Cal AI's three-step "magic moment"[17:40] Why Cal AI wasn't afraid of copycats[19:53] The UFC and mukbang creator bets that flopped[25:21] How to spot creators who will convert[28:00] Finding creators before they blow up[30:12] Pricing creator deals around revenue per 1,000 views[35:30] Measuring creator performance when attribution gets murky[39:04] Building the systems to manage hundreds of creators[43:09] The real secret to signing creators at scale[46:50] When and how Cal AI added paid ads[51:59] Keeping the experience consistent from ad to onboarding[55:07] Why Cal AI kept its price at $30 a year[58:47] The MyFitnessPal acquisition[01:03:36] Lightning round: affiliate deals and doing the work
- Sep 30, 20261h 5m
How WeWard Hit 20M Users Without Paid Ads — Yves Benchimol, WeWard
On the podcast: growing for four years on press and organic alone, affiliate deals as an underexplored revenue stream, and why deciding to pivot is the hardest part.Top Takeaways:🗞️ A PR retainer can beat paid UA for a mass-market app A $3–5K monthly retainer produced months with half a million downloads and four years of growth with zero Meta or Google spend.🤝 Affiliate deals are the revenue stream most subscription apps still ignore Brands pay commission only on sales, so the pitch to Nike-sized partners is low-risk for them and the deals are reached directly, not invented.📏 Pick the metric that is the user's outcome and A/B test every feature against it A walking app that refuses to track time in app and measures steps instead shipped a feature that lifted steps 10% by locking social media behind a step goal.🌍 A growth playbook that works in one country can fail completely in the next The PR strategy that pulled 300,000 downloads from a single French TV segment produced nothing in the US, where nobody knew the founder or the app.⭐ A celebrity works harder as a shareholder than as a spokesperson An ambassador-plus-investor deal changed hiring, press replies, CAC and retention at once, though the impact can be difficult to precisely quantify.⏱️ At scale, app review times are a growth constraint, not an inconvenience The more parallel A/B tests you run, the more a 24-hour (or five-day) release cycle caps how fast you can learn.About Yves Benchimol:🚶 Founder of WeWard, a free mobile app backed by Venus Williams designed to make walking a more rewarding part of people's lives. WeWard’s mission is simple: to get more people walking the world over.👋 LinkedIn🚀WeWard 🖥️ WeWard Careers💬WeWard on XFollow us on X: David Barnard - @drbarnardJacob Eiting - @jeitingRevenueCat - @RevenueCatSubClub - @SubClubHQEpisode Highlights:[00:00] Meet Yves Benchimol of WeWard[01:36] Why Yves left B2B retail analytics[05:04] Shutting down a business to start over[07:31] Building an app that rewards walking[09:29] Why WeWard ditched blockchain[12:24] Choosing user value over technical complexity[15:55] Loyalty, gamification, and motivational layers[17:41] Why WeWard measures steps, not screen time[18:37] Building revenue beyond subscriptions[21:46] How affiliate marketing fits WeWard[23:54] Using PR as the first acquisition channel[25:18] 300,000 downloads in under five minutes[28:32] Four years without paid UA, and why US press fell flat[31:12] Why US growth required local credibility[33:11] Pitching Venus Williams at lunch[37:47] What Venus Williams brings as ambassador and investor[42:01] What's next for WeWard's global growth[43:14] Staying ahead of copycat apps[46:25] Locking social apps until users walk[48:27] Motivational layers and staying focused on walking[50:11] Localizing rewards across 29 countries[52:35] Why growth strategies change by market[54:10] Moving to the US to scale WeWard[57:13] Why big growth requires bigger bets[1:00:06] Biggest win: rebuilding the onboarding[1:00:46] Biggest fail: returning to B2B[1:01:46] Why mobile app iteration is still too slow
- Sep 16, 20261h 4m
Why BoldVoice Charged From Day 1 and Ignored the Duolingo Freemium Playbook — Anada Lakra
On the podcast: scaling to $10M ARR with a team of ten, having every employee do two user interviews a week, and why their hard paywall "win" backfired.Top Takeaways:🧪 Trial-start rate is the wrong scoreboard A hard paywall and a no-exit discount both lifted trial starts, then refunds spiked by more than the gain; judge paywall tests on net revenue after refunds, on a matured cohort.🗣️ Every employee does two user interviews a week, engineers included Automated invites to a mixed sample of users book whoever has calendar space, so the whole team hears customers directly instead of through a PM.💳 Charge from day one to find out who you're building for A plain $10-a-month paywall with a one-week trial at launch filtered for willingness to pay and freed the team to work on onboarding and the core product instead of pricing tests.🧩 Mixing other apps' playbooks is the worst strategy of all Duolingo's freemium base only works because it teaches the basics of everything to hobby learners; a product for high-intent professionals should ignore that base entirely.📅 Lead with annual to know your channel ROI the week the trial ends Annual cash lands after the seven-day trial, so payback per channel is visible immediately and can be reinvested; monthly leaves you guessing between one month and 24.🧑💻 $10M ARR with 10 people runs on owners, one meeting a week, and everyone shippingHire founder-type doers, hold a single Monday sync, and let AI coding tools turn the whole team, including a non-technical CEO, into builders.About Anada Lakra:Anada Lakra is the Co-Founder and CEO of BoldVoice, an AI accent and speech coach for the billion people who speak English as a second language. The app provides real-time feedback powered by our proprietary speech models and lessons from Hollywood accent coaches.👋 LinkedIn🗣️BoldVoice Follow us on X: David Barnard - @drbarnardJacob Eiting - @jeitingRevenueCat - @RevenueCatSubClub - @SubClubHQEpisode Highlights:[00:00] Building a subscription app by focusing on product value over paywall hacks [01:12] Anada's personal experience with communication barriers [08:53] The early founding story of BoldVoice [13:30] Why BoldVoice charged from day 1 [16:36] Why over-optimizing paywalls distracts teams from improvement [18:40] Why mature net revenue after refunds is an important metric [22:04] How hard paywall experiments backfired once refunds were factored in [24:17] BoldVoice's reverse-trial freemium model & why it ignored the Duolingo playbook [33:32] How BoldVoice found its real ICP: professionals over students [36:42] Keeping customer obsession alive with user interviews [43:29] How Accent Oracle drove a major viral growth moment [48:33] BoldVoice's approach to paid growth and annual plans [50:45] How BoldVoice reached $10M ARR with 10 people [55:02] The expansion from accent training to spoken-English fluency [1:00:37] The stigma around accents and how BoldVoice hopes to change that
- Sep 2, 20261h 0m
Scaling Meta Ads from zero to $100K a month — Ethan Ethier, Built With Science
On the podcast: scaling Meta ads from zero to $100,000 a month, why they waited a year after launch before buying ads, and how a pricing page experiment shifted users toward annual subscriptions.Top Takeaways:📉 A big audience buys you a launch spike, not a growth engine Even 7 million subscribers produce a bump at launch and a steady trickle after; durable growth still came from paid ads, SEO, and a product that converts cold traffic.🧱 Fix trial-to-paid before you spend a dollar on ads A full year of product work before the first ad lifted the conversion floor for every channel, because paid traffic always converts colder than organic.🧲 Cold traffic converts better on a quiz than in the App Store A long, personalized web quiz educates users, overcomes objections, and raises perceived value — and it beat direct-to-store traffic in a head-to-head test, which is why 90% of traffic goes there.💰 Show annual first and shrink the perceived risk, not the price Presenting annual upfront with a day-by-day trial timeline and a promised day-12 reminder shifted plan choice from 60/40 to 75–80% annual, with no price change.👯 A two-person plan is retention insurance disguised as a discount 15% off for adding a workout partner gets 15% of trial starts to take it, raising order value and keeping both users subscribed longer.🔬 70% of experiments fail on the first try — winners come from documenting why Locking in the problem before brainstorming solutions, and writing every test down, turns failures into iterations instead of dead ends.About Ethan Ethier:🏋️Head of Growth and Operations at Built With Science, a science-based fitness app founded with YouTuber Jeremy Ethier. Personalized workout plans, nutrition guidance, and AI-powered coaching designed to help users train with research-backed methods.👋 LinkedIn🚀 Built with Science 🖥️ Built with Science CareersFollow us on X: David Barnard - @drbarnardJacob Eiting - @jeitingRevenueCat - @RevenueCatSubClub - @SubClubHQ
- Aug 19, 20261h 12m
$10M ARR Without Ever Testing A Paywall — Luke Martin-Fuller, Visible
On the podcast: hitting $10M ARR without ever testing a paywall, paying their own customers to help make video ads, and why you might want to turn away some potential customers.Top Takeaways:💸 You can reach $10M ARR with the growth playbook still in the box $1M to $10M in subscription ARR in two years, with no lifecycle email, no paywall test, and no SEO, TikTok, or AdWords. The precondition was over a year of giving the product away first.🚪 Screening buyers out protects every metric that matters A web quiz that tells some visitors the product isn't for them caps conversion on purpose, because the wrong subscriber wrecks retention, reviews, and product signal.🎬 Your own customers can be a creative engine Members submit an audition tape, get a weekly brief, and receive a flat fee in real money (not credits, not discounts) for any video that’s used as an ad.🏷️ Where you put the hardware margin is a bet on where the value lives Sell the band at cost, roughly $80, and the $20 subscription carries the value; charge a premium for the device only if it reads as an object people want.🆓 Hardware kills the free trial, so the free tier has to do the de-risking You can't give away a physical device, so the free tier becomes the proof of quality that a trial would normally provide.🔬 Published research is a moat nobody can clone over a weekend Opt-in anonymized data sharing, ethics sign-off, and peer-reviewed papers move no revenue number this quarter, but are exactly what a skeptical buyer finds when they research your product.About Luke Martin-Fuller:🫀Co-founder of Visible, a wearable activity tracker built for illness, not fitness. Real-time heart rate data and personalized insights help users pace activity within their energy envelope.👋 LinkedIn🛥️Visible🖥️Visible Careers💬Visible on XFollow us on X: David Barnard - @drbarnardJacob Eiting - @jeitingRevenueCat - @RevenueCatSubClub - @SubClubHQEpisode Highlights:[00:00] From $1M to $10M ARR in Two Years[01:57] How Long COVID Led to Visible's Founding[04:18] 5,000 Waitlist Signups for a Product That Didn't Exist[05:54] Building the Founding 100 With a Free App[07:33] Raising Just Enough Money to Get Started[08:27] Why Visible Won't Call Itself a Cure[11:06] Turning Research Into a Credibility Engine[16:49] The Stigma Around an Invisible Illness[19:40] Why Lived Experience Matters for Investors and Employees[21:57] Why an Existing Wearable Wasn't Good Enough[24:46] Designing for Brain Fog and Limited Energy[26:53] Partnering With Polar Instead of Building Hardware[29:12] The Hidden Complexity of Hardware-Enabled Subscriptions[30:59] Oura, Whoop, and the Three Hardware Pricing Models[37:13] From $1M to $10M ARR Without Testing a Paywall[42:09] Meta, UGC, and the One Paid Channel Behind Growth[44:37] Paying Customers to Create and Test Video Ads[47:56] Running an Influencer Program With a Team of Two[51:21] Why Visible's Funnel Qualifies Customers Before They Buy[55:24] Why Hardware Forces Visible to Sell Through the Web[58:49] A 10-Day Journey From Landing Page to Purchase[1:00:44] Using the Free App to De-Risk a Hardware Purchase[1:02:08] A Quiet Series A at $7M in Revenue[1:07:11] Biggest Win: Rebuilding the Web Funnel In-House[1:08:00] Biggest Fail: An AI Feature Users Hated[1:09:41] Why Growth Depends on Insurance, and Who Visible Is Hiring Next
- Aug 5, 20261h 7m
Why he crowdfunded millions instead of raising VC — Jelte Liebrand, Savvy Navvy
On the podcast: crowdfunding millions of dollars to accelerate growth, the two-year subscription that transformed his CAC payback, and why removing signup friction backfired.Top Takeaways:💰 Raising money means selling your business Equity crowdfunding turned 10,000 engaged users into 2,500 investors, and the smartest founders still raise half of what they think they need.📈 A 2-year subscription can transform CAC payback Offering 2 years at a ~30% discount ($183 vs. $129/year) pulls revenue forward, funding marketing spend the moment it happens.🚧 Removing signup friction can backfire spectacularly Killing account creation looked like a huge win in early tests, but multi-device sync complaints and support grief erased the gains at 100% rollout.🤝 Not every mouth is worth the same in word of mouth Instructors and industry insiders who refuse affiliate kickbacks carry more trust than any paid channel, precisely because they aren't sales reps.🧪 Most startups don't have the sample size to A/B test properly With a billion users, testing is easy; without them it's dangerously easy to read whatever you want into the numbers while a metric further down the funnel quietly breaks.About Jelte Liebrand:🚀Founder of Savvy Navvy, a marine navigation app that is Google Maps for boats. Charts, tides, weather, and everything you need for sailing and motorboat navigation👋 LinkedIn🛥️ Savvy Navvy🖥️ Savvy Navvy Careers💬 Savvy Navvy on XFollow us on X: David Barnard - @drbarnardJacob Eiting - @jeitingRevenueCat - @RevenueCatSubClub - @SubClubHQEpisode Highlights:[00:00] Six Days to an Oversubscribed Crowdfunding Raise [00:36] Introducing Jelte Liebrand of Savvy Navvy [01:46] A Bad Day at Google and a Yacht Race Sign-Up [03:09] Plotting Courses by Hand on a Racing Yacht [05:12] Realizing This Wasn't Just an Ocean Racer's Problem [06:10] Buying a Clipboard to Research the Boating Market [08:16] What AI Teaches Us About Shifting Expectations [13:15] Even Dropping a Pin Is Starting to Feel Dated [14:31] Sitting Down With VCs and Walking Away [16:46] What Equity Crowdfunding Actually Means [20:56] Why VC Only Fits a Narrow Set of Businesses[24:44] Raise Half of What You Think You Need [27:31] Inside Savvy Navvy's First and Later Funding Rounds [29:25] No Preferred Shares and the Same Terms for Everyone [32:35] Why He Tells Founders Not to Raise At All [35:42] Setting a Revenue Multiple Instead of a VC Multiple [39:34] From Just an App to a B2B Platform [42:27] The Arc Boats Partnership That Opened Doors [46:50] Spotting Hardware Opportunities Like Tessie and Tesla [48:30] How the Manufacturer Flywheel Actually Works [52:57] Instructors, Chandleries, and Trust Without Kickbacks [57:44] Two-Year Subscriptions and the CAC Payback Win [01:00:13] Biggest fail of the year: The Anonymous Accounts Experiment That Backfired
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Interviews with the experts behind the biggest apps in the App Store. Hosts David Barnard and Jacob Eiting dive deep to unlock insights, strategies, and stories that you can use to carve out your slice of the 'trillion-dollar App Store opportunity'.
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