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by Gigi
No solutions; only trade-offs. Walking towards a better internet. Est. 882,690. Inspired by Sovereign Engineering
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"You cannot look at something without touching it." Calle & Gigi take a walk. Listen on sovereignengineering.io Calle and Gigi start with Cashu mint internals and end in embodied cognition. Along the way they unpack sparse Merkle trees, exclusion proofs, unilateral exit, trusted execution environments, recovery paths, the move to BLS signatures, agentic coding workflows, specialist versus generalist models, world models, and why Bitcoin, Nostr, and local AI still feel like reasons for optimism. In this dialogue: how mint state can be compressed into a sparse Merkle tree and why exclusion proofs matter for ecash how unilateral exit could reduce both the slow rug pull and the fast rug pull for Cashu mints why trusted execution environments change the trust model, and why on-chain-first mint backing is the easiest place to start how timelocks and third-party recovery paths might soften mint downtime why Cashu is moving away from its current signature setup toward BLS signatures and what that unlocks how Calle actually works with coding agents, from OpenRouter and OpenCode to fresh contexts and ruthless resets why context windows are scarce, token maxing is wasteful, and one agent per project beats one giant assistant why cognitive science still matters when talking about specialists, generalists, and what frontier labs are betting on why world models differ from next-token predictors and why Vervaeke on AI and embodiment keeps coming back why Thomas Nagel and The Blind Spot show up once the conversation turns to observation, physics, and experience why high-agency builders should feel more hopeful than scared right now why Bitcoin, Nostr, and improving local models still look like the right ingredients for a freer future People mentioned: Luke Childs Waxwing Peter Steinberger Martti Malmi (#21: Hashtree, Nostr VPN, and Iris w/ Martti Malmi) Egge Kukks Yann LeCun Thomas Nagel David Chaum David Wagner Projects & tech mentioned: Cashu Cashu Dev Kit Ark Protocol OpenRouter OpenCode OpenClaw Fabian’s NIP-17 plugin for OpenClaw Bitcoin Nostr BLS signatures Readings mentioned: <a href="https://ia800100.us.archive.org/5/items/thomas-nagel-what-is-it-like-to-be-a-bat/Thomas%20Nagel%2C%20What
"We just need to speak human." MouxDesign & Gigi take a walk. Listen on sovereignengineering.io Recorded in June 2026. Mo and Gigi keep circling one question: how do you build products for people who speak plain language instead of protocol jargon? From there they get into wallet copy, fee panic, backup rituals, agentic design workflows, broken Nostr onboarding, fun-first software, and the old Bitcoin fight over purity versus adoption. In this dialogue: why design starts before the interface, at the app store screenshot, the first sentence, and the story a user tells a friend Mo's current workflow: screenshots, Mobbin, a skill file, n8n, sleep, then a sober morning review why wallet UX still stumbles on backup rituals, fee displays, and error messages that dump the cognitive load on the user why "copy is design" and why everyday users need plain language instead of protocol vocabulary how Nostr key loss turns people into read-only ghosts and leaves account recovery in an awkward place why apps on Nostr still feel early, and why fun matters if you want people to come back why Martti's work keeps coming up, from Iris to Nostr VPN, plus a callback to #21: Hashtree, Nostr VPN, and Iris w/ Martti Malmi why Jeff G's work on White Noise still matters when the conversation turns to strange network conditions and real apps, plus a callback to #25: White Noise, MLS, and marmot w/ Jeff G why Gigi still leans toward protocol purity when mass adoption asks for compromise why walking and thinking out loud can still beat Slack threads, group chats, and solo brainstorming how communities form when somebody plants a flag, names the thing, and keeps showing up, whether that is 21 World or something else why the simple test still matters: did you ship something that makes people happier? People mentioned: Jack Dorsey Alex Gladstein Martti Malmi (#21: Hashtree, Nostr VPN, and Iris w/ Martti Malmi) Jeff G (#25: White Noise, MLS, and marmot w/ Jeff G) Rabble Josh Christoph Arno Marcus Projects & tech mentioned: Bitcoin Design Guide Bitcoin Nostr Block Iris White Noise Mobbin n8n Nostr VPN BTCPay Server 21 World Recorded at 952,115.
"It’s the people who receive Bitcoin as payment for something who decide what Bitcoin is." gsovereignty & Gigi take a walk. Listen on sovereignengineering.io Recorded in May 2026. They explore what it would take to separate business from the state, why a Bitcoin economy still depends on fiat imports, and how Nostrocket might route human energy into Bitcoin-native production. Along the way they get into circular economies, merchant adoption, stablecoins, organizational design, application-specific agent harnesses, and the trade-offs behind merit-based equity, minimal governance, and forkable ventures. In this dialogue: why merchant adoption alone does not create a sovereign Bitcoin economy why registered businesses remain exposed to state control how Nostrocket reframes proof of work as human coordination around useful production what minimal governance, merit issuance, and forkability might look like in a Bitcoin-native venture why open source projects, DAOs, and Bitcoin itself keep surfacing the same authority trade-offs why application-specific agent harnesses, formal specs, and peer review may be the right proving ground for these ideas People mentioned: Saifedean Ammous Michael Saylor Frederic Laloux Vitor Pamplona Pablo Projects & tech mentioned: Bitcoin Nostr Nostrocket Bitcoin Jungle Soap Miner isolabellart The Leathermint Reinventing Organizations Holacracy Amethyst Bitcoin Core Claude stablecoins BlackRock Recorded at 951,874.
"The user joins the community, and the community does a lot of the heavy lifting." Franzap & Gigi take a walk in Oslo. Listen on sovereignengineering.io In this dialogue: How Zapstore grew out of the first Sovereign Engineering cohort in Madeira, earlier experiments like ZapThreads, and Franzap's frustration with closed mobile app stores Why Ninite, app stacks, and curated discovery mattered as much as the raw "permissionless app store" idea What it means to run Zapstore as a real marketplace: breaking the chicken-and-egg problem by pre-populating supply, signing apps under the Zapstore key, and gradually moving developers toward self-publishing Web-of-trust computation, trust providers, and why app distribution raises the stakes far beyond regular social posting Franzap's "credible exit" framing: sometimes you dial down decentralization to improve UX, as long as users can still verify, leave, and choose another community ZSP, the Zapstore publisher CLI, and how agents can already build and publish Android apps without the developer even owning an Android phone Device keys, encrypted preferences, onboarding trade-offs, and why social features, comments, and zaps are a different problem from simply installing an app Why app lists are a privacy leak, how update infrastructure can turn into a honeypot, and what it means to distribute software without building a profiling machine The operational pain behind a living app catalog: pre-releases, key rotations, migrations, certificate mismatches, and endless edge cases Google's tightening sideloading and KYC rules, Apple's developer-account maze, and why every new permissioned hurdle makes the permissionless route more compelling Why Zapstore may matter most for people at the edges: controversial apps, developers outside the usual payment rails, and users who cannot or will not pass through the official gates What's next: default communities, reviews, malware checks, privacy analysis, reproducibility, and smoother handoffs from indexed apps to self-published releases People mentioned: fiatjaf (built an earlier Nostr-native commenting system that influenced ZapThreads) American HODL / Viper (example of agent-built, agent-published Android apps) DHH and PewDiePie (part of the closing Linux detour) Projects & tech mentioned: Zapstore ZapThreads ZSP (Zapstore publisher CLI) Nostr GrapheneOS OpenSats Ninite Fossify Voice Recorder Phoenix Wallet Recorded at 951,851.
"What we're actually building is an unstoppable messenger." Jeff G & Gigi take a walk in Oslo. Listen on sovereignengineering.io In this dialogue: Jeff G explains how White Noise started as an attempt to build the most private messenger possible, then slowly mutated into something else: an unstoppable messenger that can survive ugly network conditions and hostile environments Why MLS on Nostr is mostly an ordering problem: identity and delivery are the easy parts, group-state evolution is where everything breaks Forked histories, missing commits, and the nightmare scenario where a group silently splits into incompatible realities without anybody noticing The temptation of coordinators, sequencers, and Pablo's hilariously named Serial Killer Relay, plus the deeper question of when a relay stops being a relay and quietly becomes a server Calle's Cashu headaches, NIP-60 and NIP-61 edge cases, and the "pocket with a hole" problem where balances seem to disappear, reappear, and generally behave like loose change under a couch Jeff G's current bet for Marmot: a deterministic state machine, tunable convergence rules, and automatic re-init flows that make occasional desync tolerable Why large-group privacy degrades fast, and why "perfect privacy" stops meaning much once a chat has hundreds or thousands of people in it Why Pika felt more reliable than NIP-17 for one-to-one chats, and where simple tools still beat more ambitious systems The White Noise v2 direction: replaceable key packages, smaller app components, and decoupling Nostr identity from the transport layer so relays become just one option among many How FIPS pushed the design forward by making transport agility feel real: relays, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth Direct, and whatever else can move packets when the normal internet is gone BitChat as a useful proof that narrow, situational tools matter, especially when the internet is overloaded, absent, or simply the wrong abstraction for the problem Other experiments blooming around the edges: Tubestr as a weirdly great MLS-backed permission system, plus gaming demos, new clients, and other signs that the building blocks are escaping the original chat use case OpenClaw, Fabian's OpenClaw NIP-17 plugin, and why cryptographic identities make one-agent-per-project workflows feel native Jeff G's current AI workflow: multiple agents, multiple boxes, very little hand-written code, and a strong belief that the implementation middle is collapsing while architecture, taste, and judgment matter more than ever Why "build it right" is getting harder to teach and more important to teach, because now you can vibe a terrible idea into existence in an afternoon just as easily as a good one Apprenticeship, elders, and why people like Johnathan Corgan matter: some engineering instincts only show up after you have lived through brittle systems, bad assumptions, and real adversaries Notification servers that should know almost nothing, the coming KYC of the internet, and the broader goal of building systems with less data to seize and fewer chokepoints to attack The argument over easy abstractions at the edge of Nostr, from "Coinbase for Nostr" worries to the closing detour on onchain zaps and second-order effects. For more on that last part, see Gigi's rebuttal, Careful, Icarus People mentioned: Justin Moon (Pika, small-group messaging trade-offs, and prior White Noise conversations) Pablo (Serial Killer Relay, naming crimes, and forcing the ha
“Don’t be afraid of going your own way.” Johnathan Corgan & Gigi take a walk in Madeira. Recorded during SEC-07. Listen on sovereignengineering.io In this dialogue: Why FIPS started with Arjen asking for networking that does not depend on registrars, central authorities, or yankable domain names Johnathan disappearing for a month after Costa Rica, then returning with a protocol design that scratched the itch FIPS as a self-organizing peer mesh: no privileged coordinator, only what each node can enforce locally Transport-agnostic networking: Ethernet, Bluetooth, UDP overlays, Tor, serial links, and whatever else can move packets A hilariously impractical but very useful test: tunneling FIPS over Nostr relays, with ping times measured in seconds, and it still worked Why robustness under ugly conditions matters more than looking elegant on the happy path 150 nodes already on the FIPS testnet, and what has to change to get from 150 to 1,500 to 15,000 Friday Demo Day as the forcing function: build it, show it, let other people poke holes in it The next FIPS release: fewer unnecessary pieces, stronger protocol negotiation, harder internals, more battle testing “Try to break it” so friends can fix it before hostile actors do Costa Rica and SEC-07 as a return to the early Cypherpunk and early Bitcoin energy: do not reform the old system, route around it Why Nostr feels miraculous if you remember the world before it, even if normies still see it as half-baked “Rough consensus and running code”: academic rigor, design review, and why code still has to survive contact with reality Johnathan’s critique of “shower thought to ZapStore in six hours” culture: speed helps, but engineering still matters Claude Code wrote most of FIPS only after two months of protocol iteration and roughly 30,000 words of design docs Johnathan read every file and every line of code his agents produced, which is probably the only sane way to use them Agentic coding as a force multiplier, not a substitute for thought: bad programmers get worse, good programmers get faster, non-programmers can finally build Drive-by AI pull requests, effort-matching reviews, and why maintainers should not do all the thinking for you Advice to younger builders: dissent, trust your own judgment, stop scrolling, and start doing stuff “You can just do things” People mentioned: Arjen (brought the original itch from Costa Rica, noDNS instincts, freedom-tech networking) Cobrador (TollGate, weird deployment constraints, “I didn’t think this would exist for 10 more years”) SatsAndSports Projects & tech mentioned: FIPS (Free Internetworking Peering System, a transport-agnostic encrypted mesh) Nostr TollGate (connectivity sold by the packet in hostile or weird environments) Tor ZapStore Recorded at 945,297.
“I want to optimize for hackability and customization.” Justin Moon & Gigi take a walk in Madeira. Recorded during SEC-07. Listen on sovereignengineering.io In this dialogue: Justin’s new obsession: building Shadow, a hackable mobile operating system for people who want full control over the stack Why Android is interesting again: not because it’s clean, but because it is at least open enough to fight with One wallet, one relay connection, one shared set of primitives at the OS level, instead of every app reinventing the same mess Booting a phone with less Android, then turning Android off piece by piece once the system is running From 13-second button clicks to instant GPU rendering, and why that counts as real progress Why Justin chose TypeScript apps on top of a Rust core: make the parts you should not vibe-code solid, and let users vibe-code the rest Apps as source code, almost like DMs, instead of a permissioned app store pipeline The app store tax, DUNS numbers, LLC theater, and why Justin would rather build a parallel thing than beg Apple and Google for approval Permissionless alternatives at every layer: phone OS, payments, relays, networking, app distribution, and compute GrapheneOS as the security-maximalist trade-off, versus Shadow as the hackability-maximalist trade-off “I want a 3D printed gun of phones” as Justin’s deliberately unhinged way of describing maximum user freedom and minimum guardrails “I want to optimize for shooting yourself in the foot” as the sharper version of the same trade-off: less safety theater, more user agency Why many Linux phones failed: server people building for phone users, without a real vision for what a phone should become The Nostr opportunity: a community weird enough to flash devices, test strange tools, and actually use them Why the future may look like one agent per project, each with its own identity, memory, and full machine to operate Personal clouds, bare-metal boxes, ephemeral VMs, and feeding your agents compute instead of feeding SaaS subscriptions Why local-first and self-hosted agent setups matter if you want real sovereignty, durable memory, and no surprise bans FIPS as a path toward permissionless networking, cryptographic addressing, and small resilient parallel internets Nostr VPN, tailscale-like overlays, and why overlay networks beat waiting for the whole world to rewire itself Messaging trade-offs: Marmot, MLS coordination pain, chat relays, double ratchets, and what actually works for small groups Pika, identity, signaling, and why Justin wants to stop theory-crafting and start shipping Sovereign Engineering as a high-bandwidth filter for crazy ideas, where most things die, a few things bloom, and that is the point Why Bitcoin, Nostr, and projects like FIPS feel Amish-compatible: the goal is not rejecting technology, it is rejecting dependence Justin’s closing promise: less talking, more shipping, and yes, shipping violently People mentioned: Steve Lee (early sounding board for Lightning-at-the-OS-level ideas) Johnathan Corgan (creator of FIPS, pulled out of retirement by the right kind of weird) Martti Malmi (Nostr VPN, offline-friendly networking, also on #21: Hashtree, Nostr VPN, and Iris) UTXO the webmaster (creator of the Wisp Nostr client) Pablo (app-as-chat-box idea, Pika, general agentic mischief) Arjen (mesh instincts
“Permissionless, permissionless, permissionless.” Yo & Gigi take a walk in Madeira. Recorded during SEC-07. Listen on sovereignengineering.io In this dialogue: Gigi’s AI setup: voice prompts via vibeline to brainstorm, brainstorm to implementation plan, cron job that tackles one to-do every 20 minutes, builds overnight One agent per project: dergigi.com/projects, each agent spins up with an nsec and gets to work Nihao: Gigi’s skill for spinning up Nostr identities from the terminal Claude Code “Mythos” codewords leaked – swearing at your models actually helps Planner vs developer vs tester: three distinct personas, separation of powers for AI-assisted development Separate sessions for questions vs implementation, like separation of powers “Are you human?” vs “Are you useful?” – the only question that matters PoW + WoT = useful. “Sats are just difficulty-adjusted PoW.” Dialogical development – Vervaeke on why dialogue, not monologue, is how you actually think Opponent processing – Vervaeke: competing forces sharpen each other DiaLogos and the importance of walking dialogue Opus maximalism ended yesterday: Anthropic cutting off OpenClaw, now broke, looking at cheaper models and local hardware Routing models: OpenRouter and Routstr now route between thinking and simple models automatically Yo’s Sovereign Engineering journey: showed up to SEC-04 with no programming experience, three weeks’ notice, on a climbing trip visa SEC-04 was the vibe coding big bang: Paul showed the way, Calle tried to build a Cashu client live, Paul beat him to it Got offered to join the team because “you are the one who would actually be crazy enough to move to Madeira” “Safe return doubtful”: the Shackleton ad as a model for SovEng recruitment. No pay, no wages, but glory. Read Endurance by Alfred Lansing. High barrier to entry, no option to leave, “in it for the right reasons” – the SovEng filter “Make the internet a better place.” The actual mission statement. Demoing on Demo Day is not optional The Weekly Loop: Monday Movement, Tuesday Talks, Wednesday Workshops, Thursday time off, Friday Demo Day Nuns Valley – where the walks happen SEC-06 was about identity and signers. Agentic identity: spin up an nsec, now you can talk. The problem of identity in the age of OpenClaw. Fabian’s NIP-17 plugin for OpenClaw: Nostr DMs as a transport layer for agents Yo’s Zig NIP-17 plugin: building the same from scratch in Zig MLS, Pika, and pika for OpenClaw: encrypted group messaging for agent fleets The “social media intern” problem: you gave the keys to someone who doesn’t know what they’re doing Social attestation vs cryptographic proof: Yo’s combined approach where clients only display migration events and users decide out-of-band Gzuuus’s identity continuation proposal: simpler, no key management, just OTS timestamps and preimage commitments. Don’t migrate old notes, just continue Pip’s Vertex demo: purely social web-of-trust metrics already handle identity migration in practice “Identity is a social thing” – Vitor was right about that part PortalSDK & the portal team joining SEC-06: hardware signers meeting agentic identity Nostr, Blossom, nsites, Cashu – everything
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No solutions; only trade-offs. Walking towards a better internet. Est. 882,690. Inspired by Sovereign Engineering
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