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by Dave Morin, Jessica Lessin, Brit Morin, and Sam Lessin
Dave Morin, Jessica Lessin, Brit Morin, and Sam Lessin have debated the future of Silicon Valley and tech as the closest of friends for the last 15 years. Now six companies, two venture funds and more than a decade at Google, Apple and Facebook later, they are opening up the debate.
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- 4 days ago44 min
Apple’s New Siri, SpaceX’s $300B IPO & the AI Company Killing Its Own Brand
Dave joins the squad from YC just ahead of WWDC, where the group breaks down Apple’s upgraded Siri and the surprising revelation that much of Apple’s AI capability is powered by Google’s Gemini models. It wouldn’t be a technology podcast without the squad expanding into the broader AI landscape, with Dave arguing that outside of OpenAI and Anthropic, most AI companies are becoming infrastructure providers rather than destination products. They continue to unpack the IPO frenzy around SpaceX and OpenAI, including SpaceX’s reportedly massive investor demand and OpenAI’s murky timeline to go public. Jess then shifts the conversation to the turmoil at 60 Minutes, where leadership shakeups, internal revolts, and a declining brand presence raise questions about the future of legacy media. Finally, in Pop Culture Corner, the pod closes with Disney’s $200 million bet on Toy Story 5 and Taylor Swift’s outsized promotional impact.Chapters:01:53 Apple WWDC: New Siri Breakdown05:18 Google Gemini Powers Apple AI07:06 WWDC Ignored Developers Entirely10:21 Tim Cook’s Leadership Baton Pass14:30 SpaceX IPO and OpenAI Filing18:00 Anthropic vs. OpenAI Narrative War21:48 Dave Morin’s Two-Phone Redemption26:52 60 Minutes Leadership Implosion38:44 Toy Story 5 and Taylor SwiftWe’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/Yvox4U_8u1wConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit
- 1 weeks ago45 min
Silicon Valley IPO Summer 2026: SpaceX, Anthropic, OpenAI Explained
Brit subs in for Jess as Sam and Dave unpack the AI IPO boom, including SpaceX, Anthropic, and Cerebras, debate whether AI agents can actually replace employees, and react live to the discovery that Slow’s @slow Instagram account was stolen through a Meta AI support exploit. The conversation spans OpenClaw’s enterprise push, recent AI funding rounds, the AI wrapper debate, and Sam’s latest investing thesis that startup pitches should look more like movie trailers than decks, before ending with a pop culture corner into Taylor Swift, AI-generated podcasts for kids, and the future of TBPN after the OpenAI deal.Chapters:02:53 AI IPO Season: SpaceX, Anthropic & Cerebras05:29 Narrative Capitalism: Storing Value in Stories11:34 What the AI IPO Wave Means for Silicon Valley15:02 Microsoft Build: OpenClaw Goes Enterprise17:38 Would You Trade Your Employee for an AI Agent?25:19 LIVE: Slow Ventures’ Instagram Gets Hacked via Meta AI30:04 Are AI Harnesses Just Fancy PDFs?31:49 Recent AI Raises & the SaaS Comeback33:01 The New Pitch: Movie Trailers Over Decks41:17 AI-Generated Podcasts, Voice Cloning & Consumer AI42:54 TBPN Update: Post-OpenAI DealWe’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/oYmxx8ElGHkConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit
- 2 weeks ago50 min
Did Anthropic Use the Pope as a Marketing Stunt? Ft. Amir Efrati
This week on More or Less, Amir Efrati of The Information joins Jessica, Brit, and Dave to unpack the growing intersection of AI, government, and national security, from the rumored stalled executive AI order to why frontier model companies may soon face deeper U.S. oversight and pre-release access demands. The group debates whether slowing AI adoption is really a pricing and UX problem, why AI agents are causing token consumption to explode, and whether most consumers even want an always-on personal agent. They also dive into the geopolitical implications of data centers and open-source software, AI’s impact on entertainment and voice cloning, Hollywood’s anxiety over originality, and the strange new world where even papal writings prompt questions about whether AI had a hand in shaping the message.Chapters:1:57 — AI Predictions, Whispering to Models & Forecasting the Future4:37 — AI, National Security & the Trump Administration6:52 — The Pope’s AI Document, Closed Models & Security Risks11:56 — AI Regulation, Job Fears & Public Sentiment15:45 — Is AI Adoption Slowing Down? Pricing, ROI & Enterprise Reality21:00 — Agents, CIOs & Whether Mainstream Users Will Ever Embrace AI36:00 — AI Entertainment, Voice Cloning & Hollywood’s Future41:52 — Going Off-Grid, Book Recommendations & Digital Detoxes47:00 — Mark Rober, CrunchLabs & the $10,000 Bullseye StoryWe’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/OyC7N42o36sConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit
- 3 weeks ago52 min
SpaceX IPO Date Talk + OpenAI Confidential Filing Rumors
This week on More or Less, the crew unpacks IPO speculation around OpenAI and SpaceX, debates whether AI’s economics ultimately favor recurring API spend or owning infrastructure outright, questions if Google’s distribution advantage is enough to win the AI race despite muddled product execution, and wrestles with whether today’s AI valuations are driven by real fundamentals or pure mimetic momentum, alongside broader debates on broken AI user experience, data center concentration risk, agentic search killing SEO, and whether skilled trades like plumbing may ultimately prove more durable than many white-collar jobs in the AI era.Chapters:01:35 — Brit’s fish disaster story + the fish microbiome economy04:50 — Dell World, AI PCs, and the tokenomics debate (API spend vs. owning infrastructure)11:00 — Google I/O recap: agentic search, generative UI, Android glasses, and whether Google is actually back16:30 — Google’s UX problem: why AI still feels broken for normal users20:00 — Anthropic vs. Google: focused monolith vs. sprawling empire22:10 — OpenAI IPO speculation + Anthropic’s mega-round: what do you have to believe at $1T valuations?29:30 — The “hate invest” thesis: public sentiment, retail risk, and crypto déjà vu34:20 — Portfolio debate: SpaceX vs. Anthropic vs. OpenAI35:00 — Sam builds an AI token pricing dashboard live + how companies actually burn $30K/month on tokens37:00 — What’s next in AI research? Memory, world models, and where infra plays went42:30 — White House AI model oversight rumors + OpenAI’s Elon legal update50:10 — AI side projects, kids learning to code, and why plumbers may win the AI eraWe’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessSpotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspodConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit
- May 15, 202645 min
Google's AI Book, Meta's Spy Games, AI Monks in Middle America
The squad is complete again, and Sam arrives with a NeuroPod, cold plunge updates, red light therapy, Oura stats, and enough supplements to start a wellness startup. Then into the week’s biggest tech stories: Google’s new AI device and whether it’s the Chromebook of the AI era or another doomed health-tech experiment, Meta’s keystroke logging controversy, Microsoft’s increasingly awkward OpenAI bet, why OpenAI and Anthropic are now sending engineers directly into enterprises to drive adoption, and what tools like OpenClaw, Py, and Codex actually do. Plus, Anthropic’s eye-watering latest valuation, the clean girl aesthetic discourse, Brian Johnson chaos, and Sam personally buying Jackson Hole ski passes like it’s 1997Chapters:00:23 Sam’s NeuroPod, Oura Data & Biohacker Spiral03:11 Sam vs. Brian Johnson + The Female Biohacker Opportunity05:13 Oura Ring vs. Whoop: The Verdict07:26 Google’s AI-First “Book” Laptop11:25 What Actually Makes AI Hardware Different?16:02 AI Price Wars: Local Models, Free Codex & Consumer Devices20:12 Voice Is the Killer Interface for AI24:03 Sam Built His Own Voice-to-AI App25:26 Meta’s Keystroke Logging: Spy Games or Honeypot?28:01 Fake AI Jobs & Sam’s “Fin Analytics” Prediction31:21 OpenAI & Anthropic Are Sending Engineers Into Enterprises35:07 The AI Resistance Is Real36:45 Microsoft’s $100B OpenAI Problem43:48 Anthropic’s Massive Raise & SF Real Estate Insanity48:53 OpenClaw, Py & Codex: What Is a Harness?We’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/-O3zyxR-wS0Connect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit
- May 8, 202659 min
Why the Met Gala Hates Tech, Elon vs OpenAI Drama, and the Rise of Chinese AI Models
Jess, Britt, and Dave unpack everything from Home Depot runs and closet “re-jiggers” to the internet’s growing backlash against tech wealth, AI, and Silicon Valley culture. The squad debates whether the Met Gala became a symbol of “techlash,” how layoffs and AI anxiety are reshaping public sentiment, and whether AI will actually democratize opportunity or simply concentrate power faster. They also dive into the wild new AI alliances between Anthropic, Elon, and hyperscalers, the latest OpenAI vs Elon trial drama, and why product adoption, not regulation, will decide the future of AI. Plus, Dave shares major OpenClaw updates, real-world AI workflow automations, Meta fork rumors, and the surprisingly relatable use case of turning meeting transcripts into family “receipt printer” briefings. Rounded out with solo movie dates, Taylor Swift theories, Star Wars discourse, and the state of flake culture.Chapters:00:58 Jess' Home Renovation Project While Sam is Out03:54 Met Gala: When the Bezoses Became the Story07:13 Techlash, Wealthlash, and the AI Jobs Backlash09:36 Trump’s Surprise Pivot Toward AI Regulation11:51 China, Open-Source Models, and Dave’s $5K Blackwell Desktop14:13 The Optimistic Case: AI as the Great Wealth Equalizer17:55 The Pessimistic Case: Tools Democratize, Economics Consolidate19:43 What Changes Public Sentiment: Better Products, Not Better Arguments22:42 Layoffs: Pandemic Hangover or AI Substitution?27:56 Why Almost No One Is Actually Using AI Yet33:15 Anthropic’s Compute Scramble and the SpaceX/Colossus Deal36:27 Dario vs. Elon: Two Very Different Operators39:55 The OpenAI vs. Musk Trial: TMZ or Substance?45:33 Polymarket, Twitter-Mention Betting, and ChatGPT Comeback46:42 OpenClaw Update: Foundation, Plugin Architecture, China Forks50:08 Granola + Claude Code: Replacing Salesforce in 30 Minutes53:36 Devil Wears Prada, Solo Movie Dates, and the Death of Journalism55:01 Music & Pop Culture: Ella Langley, Teddy Swims, Toy Story 556:36 Why Star Wars Keeps MissingWe’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/138ne91NkiQConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit
- May 1, 20261h 1m
Elon Musk vs OpenAI Trial, Google Cloud Surge, Meta’s Blocked Acquisition, Anthropic Winning
This week on More or Less, the crew kicks off with a very on-brand derail—Stagecoach turning into a wind-blown 90s reunion-turned-half-capacity vibe, segueing into a chaotic trend report of “booty shorts vs. jorts” before Jessica reframes it as “OpenAI or jorts.” From there, it’s into the real storylines: the Musk v. OpenAI trial in Oakland (Altman and Brockman showing up, Musk posturing, and the judge shutting down theatrics), and whether it’s substance or just WWE for tech. The AI race heats up with reports of ChatGPT missing targets while Anthropic pulls ahead, sparking a broader debate on whether frontier models are sliding into commodity territory—Sam argues narrative over fundamentals while Dave pushes on open-source pressure and who actually foots the data center bill. The conversation expands into geopolitics (regulatory capture, China’s open-source momentum, Meta’s blocked agent play) and earnings (Google Cloud riding Anthropic demand), landing on a sneaky insight: AI’s real cost explosion might be storage, not tokens. They close with a rapid-fire culture sweep—Maria Sharapova’s podcast, NYT rankings, Elon’s Mars comp fantasy, Met Gala backlash, and the final punchline: YouTube growth is way more gameable than anyone wants to admit.Chapters: 00:34 — Stagecoach Chaos: Tornado Winds & Half-Crowd Vibes 01:43 — Summer Trend Report: Booty Shorts vs. Jorts 02:56 — “OpenAI or Jorts?” The Hard Pivot 04:15 — Musk vs OpenAI Trial Begins (And It’s Already Messy) 06:40 — Gag Orders, Jury Drama & Musk’s Opening Stunt 09:03 — Is This Lawsuit Just WWE for Tech? 11:46 — Anthropic Passes OpenAI?! The AI Power Shift 13:57 — AI Is Becoming a Commodity (Sam’s Take) 15:24 — The Real Cost of AI: Tokens vs Labor 18:53 — Open Source Is Eating Everything 21:08 — Outcome-Based Pricing: Fix or Race to Zero? 23:16 — “This Is a Bad Business” (But Everyone Uses It) 26:04 — The Only AI Moat: Regulation or Narrative 29:02 — Why Frontier Models Still Matter 32:04 — China, Open Source & AI Geopolitics 35:06 — Meta’s Blocked AI Deal (Spy Game Energy) 38:07 — Google Wins the AI Race (For Now) 41:23 — The $5B Opportunity Nobody’s Talking About 43:34 — The Real AI Trade: Storage > Tokens 46:58 — Investing Is Dead, Long Live Narrative We’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/EkpYTFmS4AkConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit
- Apr 24, 202652 min
What Tim Cook’s “Executive Chairman” Move Really Means | Musk vs OpenAI, xAI and Cursor Rumors
The full quad is back and we're getting right into the tech drama: AI backlash (from Reese Witherspoon to everyday skepticism), breakthrough science like CRISPR entering its “it actually works” era, and major power shifts across tech — from Apple succession chatter to Jensen Huang’s leadership moments and the brewing battle between OpenAI and Elon Musk. They squad digs into SpaceX IPO dynamics, the rise of “traces” data as the next AI battleground, and what happens when AI gives more people the power to build. Chapters:0:17 — Welcome Back: Full Quad Edition1:07 — Creatine, AI Stuffies, and the Opening Chaos4:37 — Breakthrough Prize & CRISPR Finally Working5:47 — One-of-One Gene Therapy Becomes Real7:07 — The AI Backlash Is Real8:47 — UBI vs. Meaning: The Real Debate10:57 — Jensen’s “I Didn’t Wake Up a Loser Today” Moment12:47 — Apple Succession: Tim Cook → John Ternus16:17 — Asset Prices vs. Reality21:17 — Elon vs. OpenAI: The Trial27:07 — SpaceX IPO: Biggest in History?29:27 — xAI, Cursor, and the $60B Bet36:07 — Traces Data: The Next AI Battleground40:07 — Workplace Surveillance & Employee Data48:27 — Who Gets to Build? (6B Users vs. 50M Builders)51:07 — AI: Equalizer or Concentrator?We’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/bjePLXg64n0Connect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit
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About More or Less
Dave Morin, Jessica Lessin, Brit Morin, and Sam Lessin have debated the future of Silicon Valley and tech as the closest of friends for the last 15 years. Now six companies, two venture funds and more than a decade at Google, Apple and Facebook later, they are opening up the debate.
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