The Harder It Is, The Better

Corey shares how he moved from marketing into coding, why he still keeps technical co-founders on some products, and how he thinks about balancing services, software, and content. The group also digs into AEO, paid ads, churn in productized services, and why manual customer research still matters.Timestamps:00:00 - Intro02:20 - Corey Haines and Conversion Factory04:33 - Does everyone still need a technical co-founder?06:21 - How Corey went from marketing to coding10:08 - TrueList, Magister, and Corey’s other products13:01 - Running several products instead of betting on one15:26 - Building a business around a personal brand17:33 - How AI changes testing ideas and building products20:58 - Automated testing across 30 repos24:50 - Spreading the risk across multiple products27:24 - Josh Pigford and the debate over focus31:31 - Why some products grow and then fade34:33 - What to do when growth stalls36:48 - SendFox, focus, and what counts as winning38:52 - Churn and sales challenges in productized services41:40 - Selling AI implementation and SEO services46:14 - The value of talking to people48:29 - What parts of marketing can you productize?50:26 - SaaS marketing has changed—and Google feels it52:52 - Which marketing channels should you try first?56:24 - Finding the first customers for a niche product59:14 - Learning how customers talk and buy01:03:04 - AEO results: more visibility, traffic, and booked calls01:05:24 - AEO beyond your own website01:08:04 - The work AI still can’t skip01:11:50 - Brian’s mix of ads, cold email, and experiments01:16:03 - Growth curves and finding the next marketing channel01:20:32 - Faster MVPs and choosing what to build01:22:28 - Products Brian actually wants to work on01:24:54 - Finding customers and problems worth solvingYOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️🎤 Send us an audio or video message📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode:Ruben’s comment on AI and marketingJosh Pigford’s new startupCorey Haines on GitHubMagister Marketing — AI Marketing AgentJason Cohen’s “Elephant in the Room”Brian Casel on selling ProductizeTim Soulo: “The only competitive advantage left is effort.”Conversion Factory — On-Demand Marketing for Tech CompaniesCorey Haines — Marketer, Builder, WriterMarketing Skills for Claude Code and AI AgentsTruelist — Email Validation PlatformMarc Lou on XCharleston AI — AI Engineering, Classes & Repair