Asylum Is Not a Loophole, with Colleen Zengotitabengoa

What is asylum? Simply put, the United States must not return someone to a country where they have a well-founded fear of persecution. Following the atrocities of World War II, Congress created a U.S. asylum system under international treaty and federal law. But in recent years, as many more people sought asylum at the U.S./Mexico border, this moral and legal obligation became a political lightning rod. Colleen Zengotitabengoa has seen these challenges first-hand, in her two decades serving at the Department of Homeland Security, the White House, and Congress. As an attorney, she has directly represented asylum-seekers – real people who were not “exploiting a loophole.” Colleen will help you understand what happened to our asylum system, why it matters, and what we as a nation need to do next. ==Learn More== Amanda, Claire, and Doug express their own personal opinions on The Melting Pod. This episode was produced by Michael Palmer (⁠palmer.media⁠). Read more about the topics in this episode: * Asylum in the United States - American Immigration Council (June 2026) * The Voyage of the St. Louis - Facing History and Ourselves * Managing migration under pressure: Lessons from the Biden presidency to build a migration policy in the national interest - Brookings Institution (July 2025) * What Are Safe Mobility Offices? - National Immigration Forum (Feb. 2024)* Abandoning Principles: Unpacking the Supreme Court's Mullin v. Al Otro Lado Denying Asylum to Arriving Migrants - Just Security (June 2026) * Modernizing America's Asylum System - American Immigration Lawyers Association (April 2026) ==Give More== Want to help build a more sane and humane immigration system? Support hardworking organizations like these: National: * ⁠#AfghanEvac⁠ – working to ensure the U.S. keeps its promise to our Afghan allies * ⁠Asylum Seeker Advocacy Project⁠ – the country’s largest membership organization of asylum seekers, working together for change * ⁠Black Alliance for Just Immigration (BAJI)⁠ – organizing and advocating for racial, social and economic justice * ⁠Haitian Bridge Alliance⁠ – providing humanitarian, legal, and social services * ⁠International Refugee Assistance Project (IRAP)⁠ - strategic litigation and advocacy to uphold the rights of people seeking safety * ⁠Justice Action Center⁠ - immigrant justice through litigation and storytelling Local: * ⁠Al Otro Lado⁠ - legal and humanitarian support to refugees, deportees, and other migrants in the U.S. and Tijuana * ⁠Catholic Charities Rio Grande Valley⁠ - providing assistance to the poor and most vulnerable populations in the Rio Grande Valley community * ⁠Las Americas Immigrant Advocacy Center⁠ - free and low-cost legal services to immigrants and refugees in West Texas, New Mexico, and Ciudad Juarez, Mexico * ⁠Support an immigration service provider near you⁠ ==Chapters== (0:00:00) Introduction (0:01:27) What is asylum? (0:02:48) Who is Colleen Zengotitabengoa? (0:04:21) Who qualifies for asylum? (0:05:46) Comparison to the refugee process (0:08:40) A brief history of asylum (0:12:30) Shameful lessons of WWII (0:13:32) One client’s asylum journey (0:14:58) Two doors to asylum (affirmative and defensive) (0:19:02) Expedited removal and credible fear (0:21:32) More people claiming asylum at the border (0:25:32) Asylum is not a loophole (0:28:12) You can’t enforce your way out of this problem (0:32:02) Then why is the border so quiet? (0:33:34) What does “sealing the border” mean? (0:35:39) If we can’t figure out how to fix it, then that’s on us (0:38:07) Asylum doesn’t have to be this complicated (0:40:42) Millions of cases in the backlog (0:44:21) “Particular social group” (0:46:40) Asylum and gender (0:51:46) Pushing problems beyond our borders (0:54:32) Why don’t we have a real refugee system in Latin America? (0:57:20) Regional solutions (1:00:19) We have a moral obligation to protect people (1:02:22) The Supreme Court endorses “metering” (1:07:36) Why *is* the border so quiet now? (1:09:23) So what should we do?  (1:14:10) Three cheers for bureaucracy (1:15:22) Conclusion (Gen X style)