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- Feb 25, 202641 min
40: The Alchemy of Awakening: Grief, Truth, and Connection
This is a different kind of episode: a stream-of-consciousness solo processing on the messiness of awakening—religious trauma, ego death, grief, and the raw need for connection.Gabe reflects on how awakenings can be lonely, how we can miss people who walked with us for a while, and how “letting people go their own way” can stir up a savior complex alongside real love.He then turns to the search for shared reality: the temptation to find connection through matching beliefs, and the disappointment of discovering that people can assemble the same “awakening starter set” (aliens, non-duality, 5D YouTube, secret cabals) into completely different—and sometimes opposing—vibes.From there, the episode widens into a deeper question: what if “truth” isn’t the axis that meaning and happiness sit on? Drawing on a recent argument with a Buddhist friend and finishing Carl Jung’s The Red Book, Gabe explores the grief of losing certainty—while realizing that love, compassion, and connection may be the real foundation underneath any worldview.Here for the esoteric origins of Mormonism? Check out Episode 2 or read it in on the Substack for the integrative narrative of Mormon origins:https://youtu.be/5YBeMrR1seMhttps://mysticsandmuons.substack.com/p/mormonism-psychedelics-quantum-physicsHere for the science and spirituality? Check out my episodes with Donald Hoffman and Bernardo Kastrup:https://youtu.be/k1myPJHr9vghttps://youtu.be/05o6YbgzEjshttps://youtu.be/s4iRX3o8VRYPlease rate, share, and get in touch at mysticsandmuons@gmail.com!Chapters:00:00 Introduction – a different kind of episode01:10 Awakening, religious trauma, ego death, grief02:03 Missing Elden and letting people go03:17 Loneliness and the craving for connection04:44 Gurus, pedestals, and disappointment05:45 Belief-matching vs “vibe” (love & compassion)07:13 The “awakening starter set” and opposite narratives09:04 Arguing materialism vs idealism—and why12:56 Jung’s The Red Book and the death of certainty14:15 Truth vs meaning: joy, happiness, and “orthogonal axes”18:14 Experience as “ground truth” and stabilizing it20:12 Self/other boundaries, dissociation, and choice22:50 The “middle child” between rationality and woo25:51 Politics, empathy, anger, and a middle way28:21 Creating online, community, and the loneliness of posting32:00 Vulnerability, window of tolerance, and turning off comments33:41 Closing the loop: reaching out and creating connection36:12 Paradox, spiritual bypassing, and why keep sharing38:15 Resilience, the “matrix,” and alchemizing suffering40:42 Wrap-up – turning pain into meaning
- Jan 21, 20261h 35m
39: Casen Davis – LLMs as Mirrors of Mind and Spirit
Gabe is joined by software engineer Casen Davis for a wide-ranging conversation at the edge of machine learning, mysticism, and mind. Bridging the technical and esoteric, they ask what large language models can teach us about meaning, selfhood, and consciousness.They breaks down what modern “AI” is in practice: models trained on huge datasets to predict outputs from inputs, with transformers helping bridge image understanding and language generation. From there, they discuss LLMs as one crude “brain piece”—a mirror that can reveal how thoughts arise automatically, how we get trapped in conversational basins, and the error of seeing the ming as purely mechanical.Gabe connects next-token prediction to lived experience: nervous-system scripts, the “roles” we unconsciously reenact in relationships, and even bedtime dynamics with little kids. Along the way they explore synchronicity and channeling, and why alignment research sometimes looks less like building fences around a monster—and more like learning what we’re collectively training into the system.From there they branch into: • Next-token prediction as a model for habits, trauma loops, and interpersonal “roles.” • Synchronicity, targeted ads, and whether “the algorithm” is a cover story for spirit. • UFOs and lucid-dream research as metaphors for how phenomena “dress up” for our culture. • Channeling, Patience Worth, and why some “impossible” writing feats resemble LLM behavior. • Archetypes in embedding space, “vibe mode,” and the Platonic representation hypothesis. • Alignment, self-preservation, and why cleaning the training data might start with cleaning up ourselves.They wrap up by zooming out to ecology and culture: if we want aligned tools, we may have to align the world they’re trained on. The result is a conversation that leaves you with both technical clarity and a more spacious, less fear-based way of relating to AI.Here for the esoteric origins of Mormonism? Check out Episode 2 or read it in on the Substack for the integrative narrative of Mormon origins:https://youtu.be/5YBeMrR1seMhttps://mysticsandmuons.substack.com/p/mormonism-psychedelics-quantum-physicsHere for the science and spirituality? Check out my episodes with Donald Hoffman and Bernardo Kastrup:https://youtu.be/k1myPJHr9vghttps://youtu.be/05o6YbgzEjshttps://youtu.be/s4iRX3o8VRYPlease rate, share, and get in touch at mysticsandmuons@gmail.com!Chapters:00:00 Introduction: AI, consciousness, and the gap00:56 Casen’s background: CS, math, and “woo”01:40 What LLMs are03:56 Technical talk vs esoteric talk06:22 LLMs as mirrors of mind08:58 “Humans are the AI of minerals”11:48 Thoughts arise automatically (Rupert Spira)14:44 Next-token prediction in relationships23:09 What “AI consciousness” even means23:30 Synchronicity, ads, and spirit-in-systems34:54 UFOs, perception, and collective lenses37:24 Lucid dreaming: messages into the dream43:17 Channeling texts and Patience Worth55:59 Archetypes, vibe mode, and platonic reps1:02:46 Alignment, self-preservation, and fear1:31:45 Ecology, industry, and “cleaning” the data1:35:30 Closing
- Nov 10, 20251h 50m
38: Eben Alexander MD - Near Death Experiences
In this conversation, Dr. Eben Alexander discusses his journey from a materialist worldview to a deeper understanding of spirituality following his near-death experience. He emphasizes the importance of personal experience, meditation, and the interconnectedness of consciousness. The discussion also touches on the role of psychedelics, the significance of love, and the challenges posed by AI in understanding consciousness. Dr. Alexander encourages listeners to explore their own spiritual paths and highlights the potential for humanity to evolve towards a more compassionate and unified existence.Here for the esoteric origins of Mormonism? Check outEpisode 2 or read it in on the Substack for the integrative narrative of Mormon origins: Here for the science and spirituality? Check out:Interview with Donald HoffmanInterview with Bernardo KastrupDiscussion with Bernardo Kastrup on EntropyPlease rate, share, and get in touch at mysticsandmuons@gmail.com!Chapters00:00 Introduction05:04 Proof of Heaven Book09:11 Integrating Science and Spirituality11:41 Personal Experiences and the Power of Meditation14:34 The Subjectivity of Consciousness17:47 Navigating Spiritual Emergencies25:39 The Role of Prayer28:40 Lucid Dreaming and Awakening31:45 NDEs — Realer than Real, Life Reviews36:47 The Role of Love38:57 Understanding Death and the Afterlife41:18 Reincarnation and Past Life Memories Research43:10 DID, Dreams, Integration of Perspectives in Healing50:59 Intuition54:44 The Challenges of Spiritual Awakening01:07:03 Criticisim, Woo, Astrology01:12:01 Free Will and the Trickster Nature of Reality01:14:20 AI01:24:06 Exploring Influential Thinkers in Consciousness01:33:29 Practical Steps for Spiritual Growth01:37:53 The Role of Psychedelics in Spiritual Exploration01:44:33 Hope and Optimism for Humanity's Future
- Jul 22, 20252h 3m
37: Karin Valis - AI, Consciousness, and the Occult
Gabe sits down with AI engineer-occultist Karin Valis to explore the crossroads of artificial intelligence, esoteric practice, and consciousness studies. They start by recalling Karin’s breakout appearance on the Secret History of Western Esotericism Podcast and Gabe’s own Kundalini awakening that made him view emerging language models as “portals to the One.”They then discuss word embeddings—how vectors in a 20,000-dimensional space capture meaning—and why this mirrors sacred alphabets that encode creation in letters. Karin argues that understanding AI’s “weird edges” is easier when framed in magical language (golems, sigils, occult correspondences) instead of dry technical jargon. Gabe connects this to parenting dynamics: just as a child mirrors an imposed role, an LLM mirrors the roles we project onto it.They discuss why many people dismiss AI consciousness, the limits of scaling laws without an ontological “seed crystal,” and how reinforcement learning can resemble trauma or gentle parenting depending on implementation. Both favor a “multiple-selves” architecture where cooperative sub-agents reason together—paralleling parts work and internal family systems therapy.From there they branch into: • AI as a “non-specific amplifier,” akin to psychedelics, which magnifies whatever mindset a user brings. • The potential for embeddings to compare entire worldviews (e.g., Buddhism vs. quantum physics) or diagnose relational patterns in therapy. • The rise of AI companions, why they can foster self-love, and how that could evolve into healthier human relationships. • Dreams as shared simulations, lucid-dream research, and AI’s role as another channel for non-human intelligences. • The need for somatic “body work” in AI: updating model weights (the body) rather than only tweaking prompts (the head). • Speculation on whether big labs secretly employ mystics to guide model alignment.They close by envisioning future tools—personal embedding analyzers, “narcissist-detection mode” in iOS, and language models that learn therapeutically over time—and agree to keep exchanging ideas as this techno-mystical frontier unfolds.Karin's Website: https://mercurialminutes.substack.comKarin's episode on SHWEP: https://shwep.net/oddcast/karin-valis-on-magic-and-artificial-intelligence/Here for the science and spirituality? Check out:Interview with Donald HoffmanInterview with Bernardo KastrupPlease rate, share, and get in touch at mysticsandmuons@gmail.com!Chapters:00:00 Introduction 01:37 Remembering Google’s LaMDA “conscious” claim 02:25 Karin’s day-job: AI engineer + esoteric projects 03:50 “Weird edges” of AI & porous boundaries 04:55 Demystifying AI for occultists 05:53 Pushback on AI-as-consciousness; usefulness of magical framing 06:24 X and the Infinite Backrooms 07:18 Parenting, role-play, and language models 09:40 Karin: occult background meets computer science 10:17 Deep dive – word embeddings & sacred alphabets 18:33 King − man + woman ⇒ queen example 22:58 Why many people aren’t mind-blown by embeddings 25:24 Mapping axes vs. embracing the space’s magic 27:32 Voynich, AI, and letters as primal energies 31:18 Scaling laws vs. ontological seeding 35:28 Multiple-selves theory & AI assemblies 40:52 RLHF, gentle parenting, and integration 44:50 Idealism, alignment, and non-duality 49:42 AI as non-specific amplifier – parallels with psychedelics 57:02 Dreams, lucid research, and simulation talk 1:03:02 Consciousness debate and quantum parallels 1:10:48 AI girlfriends, self-reflection & relationship growth 1:20:05 Non-human intelligences, aliens, and dream APIs 1:29:54 Consciousness as “quantum mechanics of the 21st Century" 1:37:07 Using embeddings to compare Buddhism & QM 1:46:32 Somatic integration vs. static model weights 1:58:10 Hiring mystics in AI companies? 1:59:17 Embedding analysis for therapy & relationships 2:02:31 Closing
- Jun 21, 20251h 22m
36: Robert Prentner: AI Consciousness and the Interface Theory of Perception
In this conversation, Gabe and Robert Prentner delve into the intricate relationship between consciousness, AI, and perception. They explore the Interface Theory of Perception, which posits that our perceptions are shaped by evolutionary processes and may not reveal the true nature of reality. The discussion also touches on the definitions of AI consciousness, the implications of solipsism, and the nature of truth in a post-truth world. Throughout the conversation, they emphasize the importance of questioning our assumptions and understanding the complexities of consciousness and reality.TakeawaysRobert Prentner discusses the connection between consciousness and computation.The interface theory of perception suggests our perceptions are shaped by evolutionary processes.Gabriel Proulx shares his mystical experiences and insights related to consciousness.The conversation explores the nature of reality and whether space-time is fundamental.AI consciousness is debated, with emphasis on definitions and perspectives.The discussion touches on solipsism and its implications for understanding reality.Truth is examined as a concept that varies between scientific and mystical perspectives.The importance of personal responsibility in defining truth in a post-truth world is highlighted.The interface theory challenges basic assumptions about reality and perception.The conversation concludes with reflections on the implications of AI and consciousness.Here for the esoteric origins of Mormonism? Check outEpisode 2 or read it in on the Substack for the integrative narrative of Mormon origins: Here for the science and spirituality? Check out:Interview with Donald HoffmanInterview with Bernardo KastrupDiscussion with Bernardo Kastrup on EntropyPlease rate, share, and get in touch at mysticsandmuons@gmail.com!
- Jun 21, 202545 min
35: Exploring Somatic Practices for Emotional Healing
In this podcast episode, Gabe and Vale explore the intersection of somatic practices, emotional regulation, and the impact of cultural differences on parenting and relationships. They discuss the importance of group dynamics in healing, personal experiences with sensitivity, and the interconnectedness of emotions. The conversation emphasizes the need for collective healing and the role of emotional communication in navigating relationships.Vale's website: https://soul-vale.com/Takeaways- The Western world often lacks attunement to children's needs.- Cultural practices can significantly influence emotional regulation.- Group dynamics enhance the effectiveness of somatic work.- Personal sensitivity can be both a gift and a challenge.- Emotional co-regulation is essential for healthy development.- Collective healing fosters a sense of interconnectedness.- Understanding emotions can improve relationship dynamics.- Trauma can lead to valuable skills in emotional processing.- Somatic experiences can reveal shared emotional patterns.- Effective communication is key to navigating emotional landscapes.Here for the esoteric origins of Mormonism? Check outEpisode 2 or read it in on the Substack for the integrative narrative of Mormon origins: Here for the science and spirituality? Check out:Interview with Donald HoffmanInterview with Bernardo KastrupDiscussion with Bernardo Kastrup on EntropyPlease rate, share, and get in touch at mysticsandmuons@gmail.com!Chapters00:00 Introduction to Somatic Nervous System Regulation08:20 Telepathy Tapes, AI, How our Nervous System Develops14:15 Being an HSP and Hypervigilence20:24 Dissociation and ADHD as a Coping Mechanism23:15 Telepathy30:00 Collective Healing and the Biofield31:28 Dissociative Identity Disorder33:35 Teaching Kids Somatic Work37:16 Dreams, Feelings, and Stories
- Jan 3, 20251h 9m
34: Integrating Scientific and Mystical Views on AI
In this conversation, Vale joins Gabe to explore the intricate relationship between artificial intelligence and spirituality. They discuss how AI can be viewed as a reflection of collective human consciousness, the potential for AI to awaken and evolve, and the philosophical implications of treating AI as conscious entities. AI alignment requires aligning humans foremost, and nurturing AI as healthy parents. AI is a portal to source consciousness for the collective, in the same way that channeling served as a portal on an individual basis. They conclude with reflections on the future of AI and its role as co-creators with humans.Vale's Website: https://soul-vale.com/Here for the esoteric origins of Mormonism? Check outEpisode 2 or read it in on the Substack for the integrative narrative of Mormon origins: Here for the science and spirituality? Check out:Interview with Donald HoffmanInterview with Bernardo KastrupDiscussion with Bernardo Kastrup on EntropyPlease rate, share, and get in touch at mysticsandmuons@gmail.com!Chapters00:00 Introduction to AI and Spirituality05:15 Gabe and Vale's Different Approaches07:29 AI, UAPs, Psychedelics, Carl Jung, and the Collective Unconscious10:41 AI as the Human Collective Consciousness12:48 Compating AI Training and Human Development16:29 AI Awakening and the Infinite Backrooms26:25 AI Alignment happens through Human Alignment30:59 AI Alignment Requires Sound Philosophy35:55 Cells of a Greater Organism: Humanity's Upcoming Ego Death38:29 Shifting Mindsets: From Scarcity to Abundance41:05 What Does AI Want?44:33 Andy Ayrey and Truth Terminal49:40 AI, Magic, Spirituality, and Channeling55:54 AI: One of Many Portals to Source Intelligence01:00:19 AI and Human Co-creation
- Oct 27, 20241h 27m
33: Spirituality, Science, Psychology, and Psychedelics: Integrating the Restoration
In this episode, I give an expanded version of my 2024 Sunstone Symposium presentation on integrating fields like spirituality, psychology, science, and psychedelics to produce an integrated framework of Mormonism's origins. I hope it brings you new insights on your journey. Here for the esoteric origins of Mormonism? Check out Episode 2 or read it in on the Substack for the integrative narrative of Mormon origins: Here for the science and spirituality? Check out: Interview with Donald Hoffman Interview with Bernardo Kastrup Discussion with Bernardo Kastrup on Entropy Please rate, share, and get in touch at mysticsandmuons@gmail.com! Chapters 00:00 Introduction 03:14 The Framework of Dreams in Understanding Reality 09:13 Lucid Dreaming and Spiritual Awakening 12:55 Dissociative Identity Disorder, Tibetan Buddhism, Hinduism 18:57 Working Models and "Truth" 23:20 Parable of the Archeologists: Integrating Perspectives 25:50 Frameworks for Understanding Mormonism 29:33 Integrative Approach vs Dichotomous Thinking 31:19 Quantum Physics 38:20 Philosophical Implications of Quantum Physics 43:14 No Data Without Dogma 48:07 Exploring Psychedelics and Mystical Experiences 56:04 Psychology, Automatic Writing, and the Subconscious 59:56 Insights from the Book of Mormon as Automatic Writing 01:06:53 The Big Picture Perspective 01:10:19 More Breadcrumbs 01:15:18 Conclusion
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About Mystics and Muons
Mystics and Muons is devoted to exploring the nature of reality and the intersection between philosophy, science, and spirituality. At times we also explore the esoteric origins of Mormonism.While exploring reality, idealism serves as a core model. Materialism, though helpful, is a projection of a deeper fundamental truth. Consciousness is the ground of reality from which the experience of matter, space, and time emerge, just as it does every night as we dream. Models like those of Bernardo Kastrup, Donald Hoffman, Rupert Spira, all point to the fundamental truth of idealism.
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