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by Loren Richmond Jr. / Resonate Media
Future Christian explores church leadership, church renewal, and the future of Christianity through conversations with pastors, authors, theologians, and other faith leaders. Discover practical wisdom and fresh ideas for navigating church decline, cultural change, ministry, and the challenges facing congregations today.
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What can today's churches learn from the father of the modern church growth movement? Dr. Francisco Herrera joins Loren to explore the complicated legacy of Donald McGavran, whose ideas transformed evangelical Christianity but also contributed to racial segregation and exclusion within American churches. Drawing on his recent article in The Christian Century, Herrera reveals a lesser-known side of McGavran: a Disciples of Christ missionary who advocated for marginalized communities in India and was deeply committed to both evangelism and social justice. Together, they discuss the origins of the church growth movement, the unintended consequences of McGavran's teachings, and a provocative question for mainline and progressive Christians: Have churches abandoned evangelism in their pursuit of social justice? Topics include: McGavran's Disciples of Christ roots The homogeneous unit principle and its consequences Evangelism, church growth, and racial justice Why mainline churches moved away from evangelism Recovering a passion for sharing the Christian faith Dr. Francisco Herrera is a theologian, musician, and activist whose work explores Lutheran theology, intercultural Christian communities, social justice, and decolonial thought. Originally trained in viola and orchestral conducting, he embraced Christianity and Lutheran theology while studying music in Geneva, Switzerland, where he also developed his multilingual skills and worked across cultures as a teacher and interpreter. Herrera earned his MDiv from Chicago Theological Seminary in 2012 and began doctoral studies at the Lutheran School of Theology at Chicago in 2013. An active advocate for justice and inclusion within the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA), his scholarship focuses on intersectional Christian identity, church culture, postcolonial and decolonial theory, and Christian socialism. Mentioned Resources: 📖 The Article: "Donald McGavran’s complicated legacy" 🌐 Herrera's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/polyglotevangel 📱 Socials: https://www.facebook.com/polyglotevangel 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Homogenous Unit Principle Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: futurechristianpod 📱 Martha's Instagram: martha_tatarnic 📱 Loren's Instagram: lorenrichmondjr 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/ Supporting Sponsors: Martha's Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History - Available now! Loren's New Book: The Church as Community Hub: Sharing Spaces to Help Neighborhoods Thrive - Available now! Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer SEO / Keywords Francisco Herrera, Donald McGavran, Donald McGavran legacy, church growth movement, church growth principles, homogeneous unit principle, evangelism, mainline Protestantism, progressive Christianity, social justice and evangelism, church planting, racial segregation in churches, Christian Church Disciples of Christ, Lutheran theology, ELCA, Christian missions, missiology, church leadership, church decline, future of the church, evangelical Christianity, church renewal, Christian Century, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.
Has evangelicalism become so entangled with politics, scandal, and culture wars that we've lost sight of what's good about it? For many Christians, evangelicalism has become a label associated more with political identity than with faith. But does the public perception of evangelicalism accurately reflect the millions of ordinary Christians who belong to evangelical churches? And is it possible to acknowledge the failures of a religious tradition without dismissing everything it has to offer? Journalist and author Bonnie Kristian joins Loren Richmond Jr. to discuss her new book, In Defense of Evangelicalism: A Response to Its Cultured Despisers. Drawing on her experiences growing up in evangelical churches, embracing Anabaptist theology, and reporting on religion and politics, Bonnie makes the case that evangelicalism is neither perfect nor beyond criticism—but that it remains a tradition with genuine strengths worth preserving. Coming from a mainline Protestant perspective, Loren presses Bonnie on some of the tensions surrounding evangelical identity, including Christian nationalism, religious influence in public life, and the increasing tendency to treat political engagement as the ultimate expression of Christian faithfulness. They explore the difference between repentance and embarrassment, why criticism of evangelicalism sometimes reflects social and cultural prejudices, and how Christians can participate in political life without expecting the government to enforce their religious convictions. Together they explore: Why Bonnie believes evangelicalism is imperfect but fundamentally good How political and media narratives differ from the experiences of ordinary evangelical Christians The difference between legitimate criticism, repentance, and embarrassment How class and cultural assumptions influence perceptions of evangelicalism Whether Christians should be comfortable expressing religious convictions in public life What evangelical and mainline Christians can learn from one another's strengths and weaknesses Why churches need to consider the theological consequences of innovation, not simply whether something works Whether a less polarized, more cooperative Christianity is possible Bonnie Kristian is an experienced journalist skilled in compelling opinion writing, concise news delivery, and meticulous editing. Her most recent book is In Defense of Evangelicalism: A Response to Its Cultured Despisers. She's also the author of Untrustworthy: The Knowledge Crisis Breaking Our Brains, Polluting Our Politics, and Corrupting Christian Community (2022) and A Flexible Faith: Rethinking What It Means to Follow Jesus Today (2018). Her writing on religion, foreign policy, the modern American right, civil liberties, electoral politics, and more has been published at outlets including The New York Times, The Week, USA Today, CNN, Politico, The New Atlantis, Reason, and The Daily Beast. A graduate of Bethel Seminary, she lives in Pittsburgh with her husband and three children. Mentioned Resources: 📖 Her Book: In Defense of Evangelicalism 🌐 Her Website: bonniekristian.com 📱 Socials: @bonnie.kristian 🟧 Her Substack: Bonnie Kristian 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Michelle Van Loon 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Chuck DeGroat 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Lovett Weems 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Katherine Willis Pershey Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: futurechristianpod 📱 Martha's Instagram: martha_tatarnic 📱 Loren's Instagram: lorenrichmondjr 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/ Supporting Sponsors: Martha's Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History - Available now! <a href='https://churchpublishing.org/products/9781640659988-the-church-as-community-h
What if some of the behaviors churches celebrate in their leaders are actually signs of deeper wounds? Chuck DeGroat returns to Future Christian to discuss his new book, Who You're Becoming: The Slow and Courageous Work of Cultivating Character in a Narcissistic Age. Drawing on his experience as a therapist, pastor, and professor, Chuck joins Loren to explore the relationship between spiritual formation, emotional health, and character—and why genuine transformation requires more than managing our behavior. The conversation examines how churches sometimes reward giftedness, productivity, and commitment without recognizing the deeper wounds or unhealthy patterns driving those behaviors. Chuck challenges church leaders to consider whether their expectations are actually forming healthier people or contributing to burnout, anxiety, and unhealthy leadership. Together, they discuss why lasting change requires attention to the stories we carry, the patterns we've developed, and the ways our nervous systems respond to stress. Together they explore: Why spiritual and emotional health resources don't automatically produce Christlike character How churches sometimes mistake woundedness or unhealthy patterns for giftedness and commitment Why character should matter as much as competency in church leadership The challenge of asking gifted leaders and volunteers to step back for their own well-being How calm, differentiated leadership can influence anxious congregations and organizations The six stress responses and how they shape our reactions to difficult situations Why genuine rest differs from withdrawal or emotional shutdown Chuck DeGroat is a professor of pastoral care and Christian spirituality at Western Theological Seminary in Holland, Michigan, where he also serves as founding executive director of the clinical mental health counseling program. He is a licensed therapist, spiritual director, author, retreat leader, and founder of the Soul Care Collaborative, a network of practitioners offering spiritually attuned and trauma-informed care. As a therapist, he specializes in navigating issues of abuse and trauma, pastoral (and leadership) health, as well as doubt and dark nights on the faith journey. He and his team also facilitate five-day soul care intensives. He trains clergy in handling issues of abuse and trauma, and conducts pastor/planter assessments. Before transitioning to training pastors, Chuck served as a pastor and counseling center director in Orlando and San Francisco. He and his wife, Sara, have two married daughters. Mentioned Resources: 📖 His Book: Who You're Becoming 🌐 His Website: chuckdegroat.net 🌐 His Website: soulcarecollaborative.com 📱 Socials: @chuckdegroat 🟧 His Substack: Chuck DeGroat 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Chuck DeGroat 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Steve Cuss 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Katherine Willis Pershey Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: futurechristianpod 📱 Martha's Instagram: martha_tatarnic 📱 Loren's Instagram: lorenrichmondjr 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/ Supporting Sponsors: Martha's Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History - Available now! Loren's New Book: The Church as Community Hub: Sharing Spaces to Help Neighborhoods Thrive - Available for pre-order! Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host &
What does it actually mean to make disciples? And have churches been approaching spiritual formation in ways that overlook how people really grow and change? Jessie Cruickshank and Julia Schmaltz join Loren to discuss their new book, Becoming Good News: Reimagining Discipleship Through Identity, Story, and Science. Drawing on neuroscience, identity formation, and decades of ministry experience, they argue that discipleship is about more than learning the right beliefs or adopting particular behaviors. It's about who we trust, how we understand ourselves, and how our relationship with God shapes who we become. The conversation explores their approach to faith development, building on James Fowler's Stages of Faith. Rather than viewing spiritual growth as a ladder where each successive stage represents greater maturity, Jessie and Julia suggest that people at different phases of faith can experience healthy spiritual formation. Loren presses them on what this means for churches, particularly across mainline and evangelical traditions, and whether congregations can create space for people who understand and practice their faith differently. Together they explore: Why discipleship begins with trust and identity, not simply intellectual belief How our understanding of God shapes our understanding of ourselves What neuroscience suggests about how people respond under stress Why spiritual maturity isn't necessarily determined by one's stage of faith What mainline and evangelical churches can learn from one another about discipleship How churches can accommodate people at different phases of faith development The importance of forgiveness, repentance, and relational repair Jessie Cruickshank is a Harvard-trained expert in the neuroscience of transformation. She founded Whoology to equip churches and leaders worldwide in brain-based discipleship. Author of Ordinary Discipleship and a sought-after speaker, Jessie weaves story, science, and faith to inspire lasting change. She lives in Colorado, where she enjoys mountain adventures with her husband. Julia Schmaltz is a storyteller and leader with three decades of ministry experience and serves as the Chief Operating Officer of Identity Exchange, equipping others to live fearlessly in their true identity. Julia holds a master's in Evangelism and Leadership from Wheaton College and is shaping discipleship efforts across the globe. She lives in Orange County, California, with her husband and three adult children. Mentioned Resources: 📖 Their Book: Becoming Good News 🌐 Jessie's Website: www.whoology.co 📱 Socials: @juliacschmaltz 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Chuck DeGroat 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Jessie Cruickshank 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Brian McLaren Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: futurechristianpod 📱 Martha's Instagram: martha_tatarnic 📱 Loren's Instagram: lorenrichmondjr 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/ Supporting Sponsors: Martha's Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History - Available now! Loren's New Book: The Church as Community Hub: Sharing Spaces to Help Neighborhoods Thrive - Available for pre-order! Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer SEO / Keywords Jessie Cruickshank, Julia Schmaltz, Becoming Good News, Reimagining Discipleship Through Identity Story and Science, Ordinary Discipleship, Christian discipleship, discipleship formation, spiritual formation, identity formation, Identity Formation Theory, faith development, stages of faith, James Fowler, Stages of Faith, neuroscience and faith, neuroscience and discipleship, brain-based discipleship, attachment theory, Christian ide
What is a Christian college degree worth—and should its value be determined by how much graduates earn? Christianity Today senior news editor Emily Belz joins Loren to discuss the uncertain future facing Christian higher education--particularly regarding a new federal regulation would evaluate college programs based on whether their graduates earn more than people without the degree, potentially cutting off federal financial aid to programs that fail the test. Because ministry, theology, and religious studies often prepare people for lower-paying vocations, Christian colleges and seminaries could be particularly vulnerable. They also discuss declining demographics, international-student restrictions, artificial intelligence, institutional closures, and the financial pressures forcing Christian colleges to reconsider traditional models of education. Emily argues that the future may depend less on finding one new model than on institutions understanding who they are, what they do well, and making decisions consistent with their mission. Together they explore: Why Christian higher education is experiencing both growth and institutional closures How a new federal earnings test could affect seminaries and ministry programs Why measuring a degree primarily by graduates' income creates problems for ministry and other service-oriented professions How colleges may restructure programs to preserve access to financial aid The demographic and financial pressures facing Christian colleges Why institutional mission should shape how schools adapt How immigration enforcement is affecting pastors and congregations Emily Belz is a senior news editor. She has almost 20 years of experience in long-form feature reporting and writing in local, national, and international news. In addition to CT, she has written for The New York Times, World, Plough, the New York Daily News, The Hill, and The Indianapolis Star. She has won awards including one for feature writing from the Evangelical Press Association as well as the Zenger Prize. She lives in New York City. Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Emily's writing: Christianity Today 🟧 Emily's Substack: @emilybelz 🌐 The article we discuss: Existential Threat 🎧 Episodes Referenced: John Hawthorne Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: futurechristianpod 📱 Martha's Instagram: martha_tatarnic 📱 Loren's Instagram: lorenrichmondjr 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/ Supporting Sponsors: Martha's Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History - Available now! Loren's New Book: The Church as Community Hub: Sharing Spaces to Help Neighborhoods Thrive - Available for pre-order! Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer SEO / Keywords Emily Belz, Christianity Today, Christian higher education, Christian colleges, Christian universities, Christian seminaries, future of Christian higher education, future of Christian colleges, higher education crisis, Christian college enrollment, seminary enrollment, theological education, ministry education, ministry degrees, religious studies programs, federal student loans, federal financial aid, college financial aid, student loans, college affordability, earnings test, value of a college degree, ministry and money, Christian college closures, seminary closures, demographic cliff, higher education demographics, Bible colleges, Bible college closures, institutional sustainability, Christian institutions, church leadership, Christian leadership, vocational ministry, ministry training, immigration and churches, immigration enforcement, Latino churches, Christianity
What happens when the church becomes more concerned with managing its message than hearing difficult truths? Matthew Townsend joins Martha Tatarnic to discuss the role of journalism, truth-telling, and accountability within Christian institutions. Matthew served as editor of the Anglican Journal from 2019 to 2021 before leaving following a conflict over the treatment of confidential sources. Now a member of an Orthodox parish, he reflects on his experience in church journalism and the recent decision to end the Anglican Journal's journalistic independence and incorporate it into the Anglican Church of Canada's communications strategy. Martha and Matthew explore why churches need people willing to describe reality as it is, especially when institutions are anxious about decline or their future. They discuss journalism as a form of truth-telling, the relationship between accountability and institutional power, and why critical voices can contribute to better discernment even when they make leaders uncomfortable. Together they explore: What happened to the Anglican Journal's journalistic independence Why churches need truth-tellers and independent voices How institutional decline can intensify anxiety and message management Why progressive institutions aren't immune from failures of accountability The relationship between truth-telling, prophecy, and Christian faith Why the future of Christianity may require presence and stability rather than constantly seeking something new Matthew Townsend served as editor of the Anglican Journal, at the time a journalistic publication of the Anglican Church of Canada, from 2019 to 2021. Mistreatment of confidential sources prompted Matthew to leave his position, the denomination, and ecclesial work. Originally from Florida, Matthew and his family live in Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, and worship at St. Vladimir Orthodox Church (OCA) in Halifax. Mentioned Resources: 🌐 His Current Publication: southdartmouth.ca Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: futurechristianpod 📱 Martha's Instagram: martha_tatarnic 📱 Loren's Instagram: lorenrichmondjr 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/ Supporting Sponsors: Martha's Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History - Available now! Loren's New Book: The Church as Community Hub: Sharing Spaces to Help Neighborhoods Thrive - Available for pre-order! Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer SEO / Keywords Matthew Townsend, Anglican Journal, Anglican Church of Canada, Christian journalism, religious journalism, church journalism, journalism and Christianity, truth telling in the church, church accountability, institutional accountability, church leadership, congregational leadership, institutional church, church communications, church public relations, church transparency, independent journalism, Christian truth telling, prophetic voice, discernment, church decline, institutional decline, declining churches, anxious church, church anxiety, church institutions, Anglicanism, Anglican Church, Eastern Orthodoxy, Orthodox Christianity, church and power, colonialism and Christianity, Indigenous reconciliation, residential schools, church abuse, religious institutions, Christian leadership accountability, future of the church, future of Christianity, church renewal, faithful presence, Christianity and culture, Future Christian Podcast, Martha Tatarnic, Loren Richmond Jr.
What if the most essential resource to make a ministry last isn't money--it's relationships? Rev. Dr. Eric H. F. Law returns to podcast to talk with Loren about why some of the most important resources for sustainable ministry aren't found in a budget. Sharing about his Holy Currencies framework, Law describes the six resources that help ministries become sustainable: money, time and place, gracious leadership, relationships, truth, and wellness. Drawing on decades of work with congregations, Law explains why relationships may be the resource churches most often overlook—and why listening to a community can be more important than launching another well-funded program. Together they explore: What makes a ministry sustainable Why money isn't necessarily a church's most important resource Listening to a community before deciding what it needs Moving from transactional service to genuine relationship Developing ministries that aren't dependent on one leader Knowing when it's time for a ministry to change or end The Rev. Dr. Eric H. F. Law is the founder of the Kaleidoscope Institute, which provides resources to equip leaders to create diverse and sustainable communities. Since his retirement from being the Executive Director, he continues his support of the Kaleidoscope Institute as its Innovator. He has been a consultant and trainer for over 30 years working with religious and not-for -profit organizations across the U.S.A., and Canada. Besides creating effective anti-racism training and curricula for building inclusive sustainable communities, he had successfully created a curriculum for incubation of sustainable and impactful projects addressing economic, social, spiritual, mental and physical wellness - from initial idea to launching innovative and sustainable action plan. He is the author of over 12 books including Holy Currencies, Fear Not: Living Grace and Truth in a Frightened World, The Wolf Shall Dwell with the Lamb, and Inclusion:Making Room for Grace. He is singer-songwriter-recording artist, an Episcopal priest, a photographer and a playwright. Mentioned Resources: 📖 His Book: Holy Currencies 🌐 His Website: Kscopeinstitute.org 🎧 Listen to his music: erichflaw.hearnow.com 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Eric Law Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: futurechristianpod 📱 Martha's Instagram: martha_tatarnic 📱 Loren's Instagram: lorenrichmondjr 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/ Supporting Sponsors: Martha's Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History - Available now! Loren's New Book: The Church as Community Hub: Sharing Spaces to Help Neighborhoods Thrive - Available for pre-order! Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer SEO / Keywords Eric H. F. Law, Holy Currencies, sustainable ministry, sustainable church ministry, ministry sustainability, church sustainability, church resources, church finances, money and ministry, funding ministry, relational ministry, relationship building, church and community, community engagement, missional ministry, missional church, church leadership, congregational leadership, gracious leadership, leadership development, ministry burnout, clergy burnout, Sabbath and ministry, church volunteers, volunteer leadership, church renewal, church decline, congregational vitality, church outreach, community partnerships, listening to the community, transactional ministry, church innovation, Kaleidoscope Institute, Holy Currency Exchange, Drawing on Holy Currencies, Fear Not, future of the church, future of Christianity, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.
In this special episode, Martha Tatarnic interviews co-host Loren Richmond Jr. about his new book, The Church as Community Hub: Sharing Spaces to Help Neighborhoods Thrive. Loren shares what inspired the book—including a visit to a small Canadian church serving migrant farm workers—and how years of conversations on Future Christian helped shape his thinking. At the heart of the book is a simple question: What if church buildings were understood not simply as places Christians gather, but as resources entrusted to congregations for the flourishing of their neighborhoods? Together they explore: What inspired The Church as Community Hub How Future Christian conversations shaped the book Why mission—not institutional survival—must come first Starting small and experimenting rather than looking for a magic bullet Why reimagining church property can be an act of hope What it means to equip congregations not necessarily to save the church, but to be the church Loren Richmond Jr. is a pastor, chaplain, and nonprofit leader. He is the director of development and programming for Green Room Leaders, as well as a cofounder and cohost of the Future Christian Podcast. His Substack is The Church Nerd. Richmond has worked in five Christian traditions, and he holds an MDiv from Phillips Seminary and an MBA in Nonprofit Management from Hope International University. He lives in Thornton, Colorado. Mentioned Resources: 📖 His Book: The Church as Community Hub 🌐 His Website: lorenrichmondjr.com 📱 Socials: @lorenrichmondjr 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Chad Brooks 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Michael Graham 🎧 Episodes Referenced: John Cleghorn 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Grace Pomroy 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Bob Jaeger 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Mike Cosper Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: futurechristianpod 📱 Martha's Instagram: martha_tatarnic 📱 Loren's Instagram: lorenrichmondjr 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/ Supporting Sponsors: Martha's Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History - Available now! Loren's New Book: The Church as Community Hub: Sharing Spaces to Help Neighborhoods Thrive - Available for pre-order! Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer SEO / Keywords Loren Richmond Jr., The Church as Community Hub, church as community hub, church buildings, church property, church building reuse, reimagining church buildings, underused church buildings, church property ministry, church and community development, community hub model, neighborhood ministry, community engagement, church leadership, congregational leadership, church renewal, church decline, declining churches, future of the church, church innovation, missional church, church mission, adaptive ministry, church partnerships, sacred space, noncommercial community space, stewardship of church property, church buildings and mission, neighborhood flourishing, mainline Christianity, Martha Tatarnic, Future Christian Podcast
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Future Christian explores church leadership, church renewal, and the future of Christianity through conversations with pastors, authors, theologians, and other faith leaders. Discover practical wisdom and fresh ideas for navigating church decline, cultural change, ministry, and the challenges facing congregations today.
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