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Discourse in Magic: Daily Summaries Delivered
by Jonah Babins and Tyler Williams
Jonah Babins from Discourse in Magic tackles magic’s hardest issues, theories, philosophies, discussion, and more to help you explore. He jumps into all sorts of magic, and resources, and most importantly actionable tips to help better the art and become a killer performer!
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- 2 weeks ago15 min
AI For Magicians
In this solo episode, Jonah Babins reports back from the annual Mastermind Summit. Every year, Jonah takes the mastermind group to an epic, tropical destination to map out business growth, and this year they returned to a beautiful resort in Mexico. While the room tackled classic pillars like contracts, public shows, SEO, and cold email, one massive topic dominated the entire trip: Artificial Intelligence. Jonah issues a direct warning to performers: it is 2026, and running a business without looking at AI is simply irresponsible. This isn’t about shoving technology down anyone’s throat; it’s about recognizing a unique window of opportunity to out-innovate your competition before your booking systems feel completely ancient. What You’ll Learn in This Episode The Rising Floor: Why “okay” websites and generic marketing won’t cut it anymore as new competitors launch with highly optimized, AI-driven setups. Lead Generation in Flux: How the foundational engines of magic bookings—including SEO, Google Ads, and cold email—are shifting under our feet. Automating the Stuff You Hate: Turning over tedious tasks like inbox management, contract writing, web scraping, and chasing payments to AI so you can focus on performing. The Speed of Creativity: Why business no longer moves at the speed of pure effort and hours, but rather at the speed of creative system design. The Mastermind Evolution: Why the Discourse in Magic Mastermind has officially transition into an AI-driven innovation company. Key Pillars of the Discussion Shifting From Effort to Creativity Once upon a time, the magic business favored whoever could put in the most raw hours—sending the most emails or writing the most blog posts. Today, the tools are equalized, meaning the most creative system wins. Jonah contrasts a basic user who merely transcribes a sales call with a creative producer who uses AI to instantly sync with a CRM, generate automated follow-up sequences, pull dynamic client testimonials, and build custom pitch decks instantly. Just like a deck of cards, the tool remains the same, but the output depends entirely on the creativity of the performer. Erasing the Admin Work The most easily replaced tasks are the repetitive admin jobs that most magicians procrastinate on anyway. AI excels at calendar management, draft sorting, data scraping, and contract refinement. By automating these friction points, you preserve your energy for the parts of the business that require true human relationship-building: the magic, the client interactions, and the live performances. Mentions & Links The Discourse in Magic Mastermind: The premier community helping magicians scale their businesses through modern tech and strategic innovation. Jonah’s Daily Companion: Claude—the specific AI platform Jonah and lead coach Kelvin use for 3 to 5 hours every single day to test new workflows. Don’t wait until it gets easier. Jonah’s ultimate challenge to the community is to spend at least one hour a week (ideally an hour a day) playing with these tools. The magicians who jump in now are the ones who will capture the market while everyone else waits on the sidelines.
- Apr 12, 202623 min
Inside the Chicago Magic Round Table
In this special episode, Jonah Babins shares a “meaty” excerpt from his recent business lecture delivered to the Chicago Magic Round Table. Recorded while Jonah was in the midst of a residency at the Chicago Magic Lounge (654 Club), this session skips the tricks and goes straight to the systems that allow a performer to scale from a hobbyist to a high-earning professional. Jonah breaks down the exact philosophy they use at the Toronto Magic Company. While the full lecture covers everything from t-shirts to thumb tips, this episode focuses on the “engine” of your business: how you handle leads, how you optimize your time, and when it’s finally time to ditch the spreadsheet for something more powerful. What You’ll Learn in This Episode The Chicago Residency: Jonah’s experience performing close-up in the legendary 654 Club and the unique energy of the Chicago magic scene. Systems vs. Software: Why you shouldn’t buy a CRM until your current system is “breaking” from too much success. The “Fast Talker” Philosophy: Why Jonah pushes the pace during business lectures and how to absorb high-level strategy without getting overwhelmed. Lead Management: The transition from manual copy-pasting to automated forms and why efficiency is the ultimate competitive advantage. AI in Magic: Why Claude has become an indispensable “coworker” for drafting copy, organizing ideas, and managing the backend of a magic brand. Key Pillars of the Lecture Identifying the “Break” Point Jonah discusses a common trap: magicians buying expensive software to solve problems they don’t have yet. He argues that you only need a system when you are getting so many leads that a simple spreadsheet is no longer manageable. Systems should be the solution to your growth, not a distraction from it. Continuous Optimization The secret to the Toronto Magic Company’s success isn’t one big secret—it’s a thousand small optimizations. Jonah explains the importance of looking at every step of your booking process and asking, “How can this be 1% better?” Leveraging Modern Tools From using AI like Claude for business heavy-lifting to utilizing automation for client inquiries, Jonah highlights how modern tech allows a solo performer to operate with the professionalism of a much larger agency. Mentions & Links The Chicago Magic Lounge: A world-class venue and home to the Chicago Magic Round Table. Claude: Jonah’s recommended AI tool for business efficiency. Lecture Inquiries: If you want Jonah and Ben to bring this lecture (including the tricks!) to your club or convention, email magic@torontomagiccompany.com. Follow Jonah: Find tips and business advice on Instagram @discourseinmagic
- Mar 19, 20261h 8m
Trading Places: Jonah Babins with The Magic Guys
This week, Discourse in Magic looks a little different. Instead of Jonah interviewing a guest, we’re sharing an episode where the tables were turned. Jonah recently sat down with Josh Norbido and Nick Kay—better known as The Magic Guys—on their popular Australian-based livestream and podcast. The Magic Guys actually “robbed” Jonah of the FSM Award for top Magic Podcast this year, but there are no hard feelings here. Their show is famous for its high energy, active YouTube community, and hilarious banter, making this one of the most engaging “crossover” episodes yet. In this session, Josh and Nick grill Jonah on the inner workings of his business, his performance schedule, and his philosophy on growth. What You’ll Learn in This Episode The Toronto Magic Company Story: How Jonah built a brand that doesn’t just book him, but manages a roster of talent across the city. The FSM Rivalry: A behind-the-scenes look at the friendly competition between the top magic podcasts in the industry. The “Anti-Budget” Strategy: Why Jonah believes asking a client “What is your budget?” is one of the biggest mistakes you can make on a sales call. Managing a Roster: The logistics and ethics of taking a cut from other magicians’ gigs and how to provide enough value to make it a win-win. The Power of Community: How The Magic Guys built a “fitspo” for magicians through livestreaming and Discord interactions. Key Pillars of the Discussion The Business of Management Jonah dives deep into how the Toronto Magic Company operates. He explains the transition from being a solo performer to building a brand that clients trust, allowing him to book other magicians and take a management fee while ensuring the quality of the show remains high. The Perfect Sales Approach During the “grilling” session, Jonah shares one of his most important pieces of business advice: stop leading with budget. He argues that by focusing on the value and the specific needs of the event first, you position yourself as an expert rather than a commodity. Content and Coaching Jonah discusses his recent shift toward heavy Instagram content and his Magic Business Mastermind, where he helps performers scale from five figures to six figures and beyond. Mentions & Links Follow The Magic Guys: Check out Josh Norbido and Nick Kay on YouTube and their podcast. Toronto Magic Company: Learn more about Jonah’s local management brand. FSM Awards: The annual awards recognizing excellence in magic media. The Mastermind: Message Jonah the word “SALES” on Instagram @discourseinmagic to get details on his upcoming workshop. Ready to stop asking about budgets and start closing bigger gigs? If you enjoyed this deep dive into the business side of magic, make sure to follow the newsletter for tips sent out three times a week.
- Mar 14, 202611 min
Mastering the Perfect Sales Call
In this episode, Jonah Babins breaks down a critical mistake magicians make when a lead finally lands in their inbox: treating the sales call like a logistics checklist. While knowing the venue and guest count is important, a truly professional sales call does something much deeper. Jonah explores how the right questions don’t just give you information—they prove your expertise and give you the exact language you need to close the gig. Whether you’re performing at high-end weddings or corporate holiday parties, the strategy remains the same: stop asking about logistics and start asking about the experience. Jonah shares two specific “power questions” that shift the dynamic from being a vendor to being a consultant. What You’ll Learn in This Episode The 10,000-Foot View: The ideal structure of a sales call, from discovery questions to the final close. The Language Mirror: Why asking the right questions gives you the “tools” to explain your magic using the client’s own goals (like “breaking the ice”). The “Pro” Signal: How specific, market-driven questions (like asking a camp director about “evening programs”) prove you have experience without you ever having to brag. The Wedding Hack: The one question about family photos that creates a “private magic moment” for the couple and solves a major wedding planning oversight. The Corporate “Plus-One” Strategy: How to use the presence of spouses to position your magic as a relationship-building tool rather than just “entertainment”. Two Examples of “Pro” Questions Jonah illustrates the power of high-level questioning through two common scenarios: The Wedding Question: Ask if the couple will be away taking photos during the cocktail hour. This identifies a problem: they are paying for magic they won’t see. By offering a private, five-minute routine for just the two of them and their content team, you provide massive value and a lifetime of memories. The Corporate Question: Ask if plus-ones are invited to the holiday party. This allows you to explain the “babysitting” problem—where employees spend the whole night making sure their partner isn’t lonely instead of mingling. You can then position your mingling magic as the solution that builds those early relationships and keeps guests from leaving the moment dessert is done. Mentions & Links Register for the Workshop: Jonah is hosting a deep-dive workshop on Thursday the 19th all about the Perfect Sales Call. Sign Up Here:https://discourseinmagic.com/salescall/ Follow Jonah on Instagram: @discourseinmagic. Ready to get more “Yes” answers and higher fees? If you want to stop winging your sales calls and start closing with confidence, join Jonah for the upcoming workshop. No cold calling, no strangers—just a system for when people inquire to work with you.
- Mar 6, 202615 min
Where Has Jonah Been?
In this solo episode, Jonah Babins pulls back the curtain on the eight-month hiatus of Discourse in Magic. Since August 2025, the podcast feed has been quiet, leading many listeners to reach out and check-in. Today, Jonah is back to explain his disappearance, share a major business epiphany from his recent travels, and lay out the future of the show. The truth is, Jonah hasn’t been resting; he’s been on a whirlwind journey across the globe. From Auckland to Melbourne, and Pennsylvania to Denver, Jonah has been physically traveling to visit members of his Magic Business Mastermind. He shares the “insane” rule he follows: when a magician has worked with him for 18 months, he flies out to see them on his own dime. This commitment, combined with a heavy November/December gigging season, made recording high-quality episodes nearly impossible—until now. What You’ll Learn in This Episode The Travel Log: Why Jonah spent 30 of the first 45 days of 2026 on the road and what it’s like managing a 60-person mastermind while remaining a full-time performer. The Australia Epiphany: How being in a completely different time zone forced Jonah to embrace asynchronous work and delegation. Content vs. Systems: Why Jonah is moving away from the “hamster wheel” of social media content and toward lead generation that doesn’t require daily manual output. The “Easy” Question: Inspired by Tim Ferriss, Jonah asks: “What would this look like if it were easy?” and applies it to your magic bookings. The Viral Trap: The reality of getting 3.4 million views on a Reel and why it resulted in zero inquiries and one death threat. Lead Gen: Stop Dancing, Start Scaling Jonah breaks down the major difference between Daily Output lead gen and Systematic lead gen: The Content Trap: Posting 3+ times a day is a full-time job. Unless you love shooting and editing, it might not be the best use of your time as a magician. The Evergreen Power of SEO: A single well-written blog post can rank for years, providing value long after an Instagram post has disappeared from the feed. Automation: How tools like ads and cold email software allow you to “press play” and generate leads while you focus on your craft. Mentions & Links Follow Jonah on Instagram: @discourseinmagic for daily tips and reels. The Newsletter: Join the community to get deep-dive emails several times a week. Recommended Reading: The 4-Hour Workweek (or any works) by Tim Ferriss. See Jonah Live: performing at the Chicago Magic Lounge (654 Club) this March. Ready to grow your magic business the “Easy Way”? If you want to scale your business from five to six figures without dancing on TikTok, DM Jonah the word “SCALE” on Instagram.
- Aug 17, 202513 min
Weaponize Your Show
In this episode of Discourse in Magic, Jonah Babins dives into a powerful concept from his mastermind sessions: Weaponizing Your Show. The idea is simple—make your show book you more shows. Beyond just delivering a strong performance, Jonah shares five practical tactics to turn every gig into a referral engine, rebooking machine, and review generator. If you want your performances to create momentum in your business, this episode is packed with actionable advice you can implement right away. Mention What You Do Onstage Audiences rarely know whether magic is your hobby or your full-time career. Jonah explains how to weave subtle references into your script that signal where and who you perform for—whether it’s weddings, corporate events, or private parties. This small tweak sparks ideas in your audience about where else they could hire you. Use Humor to Get Reviews Getting reviews can feel awkward—unless you make it part of your act. Jonah shares the exact joke he uses at every show that gets laughs while nudging audience members to leave five-star reviews. It’s a simple, repeatable way to boost your credibility without being pushy. Don’t Run Out After the Show Your performance isn’t over when you step off stage. Jonah stresses the importance of staying behind to thank volunteers, mingle, and even do a bonus trick or two. Building connections in those moments can turn casual spectators into future bookers. Master the Business Card Swap When someone asks for your card, don’t just hand it over—swap. Jonah breaks down how to use these interactions to capture leads, follow up, and move people into your sales funnel. It’s a small shift that ensures opportunities don’t slip away. Be Easy to Remember Even great magicians get forgotten if their brand isn’t sticky. Jonah explores the importance of simple names, clear visuals, and consistent branding to make sure you’re memorable long after the show is done. Because if they can’t remember your name, they can’t rebook you. Mentions Toronto Magic Company Weaponize Your Show Mastermind Session Bill Herz (corporate magic insights) David Gerard Bill Malone
- Jul 25, 202519 min
Thoughts on FISM
In this solo episode of Discourse in Magic, Jonah Babins shares his raw and honest reflections on FISM 2025. From mind-blowing performances to marathon-length competitions, Jonah walks through the highs and lows of the world’s biggest and most prestigious magic convention and competition. Whether you attended or are just curious about how FISM functions, this episode offers a candid inside look. Highlights from the World Stage Jonah opens with praise for the best of the best—performers whose acts left audiences stunned. Standout mentions include Michael Bloke’s clever creativity, the astonishing coding mentalism of Mind to Mind, Billy’s inventive routine, Morton Christensen’s consistent excellence, and the shockingly fresh linking ring act by Juan Klos. But it was quick-change artist Leah Kyle who stole the show with a jaw-dropping act that received standing ovations and, in Jonah’s view, deserved the Grand Prix. The Long Haul of Competition Despite the brilliance at the top, Jonah critiques the structure of FISM’s competition. With hours upon hours of performances—many of which don’t meet the bar—he argues for stricter qualification rounds to cut down the sheer volume. Watching 150+ acts over several days becomes grueling, and Jonah suggests FISM should focus on quality over quantity to make the experience more enjoyable and less exhausting. What FISM Got Right (and Wrong) From disappointing gala shows to overlooked online categories, Jonah points out organizational missteps. The new Online Magic Awards, though a great idea, felt like an afterthought—barely acknowledged during the ceremony and judged with outdated criteria. He also calls for a more thoughtful schedule, noting the chaos of overlapping events, midnight galas, and 9 a.m. lectures. And as for the judging? Let the crowd reactions count—because Leah Kyle not winning still feels like a snub. Mentions FISM (Fédération Internationale des Sociétés Magiques)
- Jul 17, 202558 min
Jamie Allan: Building Big Magic With Authenticity
In this episode of Discourse in Magic, Jonah sits down with Jamie Allan, a pioneering illusionist and producer known for blending large-scale magic with theatrical storytelling. From growing up in a showbiz family in the UK to launching Broadway-scale productions in New York, Jamie shares the ups and downs of his journey—offering invaluable lessons about reinvention, creative resilience, and staying authentic in a world of illusions. From Red Coats to Broadway Jamie traces his early days performing in holiday parks and on cruise ships, where he learned to love the stage and reject the grind of close-up gigs. His breakout moment came with I Magician, a tech-themed stage show that earned critical and commercial success in the UK and US. Jamie shares how learning from the financial and marketing failures of Houdini: The Musical helped him pivot to a more sustainable, scalable model for touring magic. Innovation, Failure, and the COVID Pivot When the pandemic hit, Jamie didn’t wait. He transformed canceled plans into a new immersive magic experience called Illusionarium in Toronto—an ambitious, multi-room journey through the history of magic. Jamie reflects on the logistical chaos, creative breakthroughs, and the emotional impact of creating live work at a time when theaters were dark. Later, he reimagined the project as Magic Immersive in Chicago, which found its stride as a tightly run, high-energy spectacle. Amaze, Broadway, and the Future of Illusions Jamie talks about his current off-Broadway show Amaze, a deeply personal and theatrical production blending storytelling with illusion. Unlike the days of dance tracks and unexplained boxes, Amaze uses magic to serve the story and aims to leave audiences feeling something more than just fooled. He shares why illusions might be making a comeback and why today’s magicians need to lead with honesty, passion, and presence on stage. The Endless Chain Jamie Allan recommends Tom Crosbie as the next guest for Discourse in Magic. Mentions Jamie Allan’s Amaze in NYC Illusionarium (Toronto immersive experience) Magic Immersive (Chicago)
About Discourse in Magic
Jonah Babins from Discourse in Magic tackles magic’s hardest issues, theories, philosophies, discussion, and more to help you explore. He jumps into all sorts of magic, and resources, and most importantly actionable tips to help better the art and become a killer performer!
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