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Conscious Chatter: Daily Summaries Delivered
by Kestrel Jenkins
The first global sustainable fashion podcast, Conscious Chatter opens the door to conversations about our clothing + the layers of stories, meaning and potential impact connected to what we wear. Hosted by Kestrel Jenkins, Conscious Chatter tackles nuanced topics that intersect with sustainability, fashion, systems of oppression, health, and wellbeing through a curiosity-driven lens. Through deep dive monthly themes, the focus is on making the conversation more circular.
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- 1 weeks ago49 min
Jessica Matlock of Landbell USA and Paul Doertenbach of Landbell Group compare local and global notes on the implementation of textile EPR policy and explore what global alignment could look like in practice to build a more sustainable fashion industry
In Episode 346, Kestrel welcomes Jessica Matlock, the Government Relations Manager for Landbell USA, and Paul Doertenbach, the Head of the Textile Programme at Landbell Group, to the show. Jessica previously served as a Policy Analyst in the California State Senate where she staffed housing, local government and environmental legislation, most notably SB 707 (Newman), the Responsible Textile Recovery Act of 2024. At Landbell Group, Paul leads the development of textile EPR solutions across Europe and internationally. He was part of the team behind I:Collect (I:CO), helping to establish and grow the company into a global textile take-back and collection platform, and is also co-founder of reverse.fashion, a tech company developing AI-powered automated sorting solutions for textile reuse and recycling. Landbell USA is the Producer Responsibility Organization selected by CalRecycle to implement the Responsible Textile Recovery Act of 2024 – the first-in-the-nation Extended Producer Responsibility program for clothing and textiles. "While EPR can solve a lot of things, it is just one more piece of legislation required on our journey towards implementing the circular economy in our industry. And what I do see is a lot of times when stakeholders within the reverse supply chain or any actors actually within our industry have a problem, they close their sentence by saying, yeah, but we will have EPR covering that. And it's not gonna be EPR, we know its boundaries. We discussed the targets that are being set, and most likely it will not solve all issues that we have." -Paul "I think the EU's waste directives are a lot more top down. Like the the government and legislation is really setting those targets. and in California it's more of a bottom up approach … California's structure very much puts a lot of those performance targets on the PRO to set in partnership with CalRecycle, and that is being done through an intentionally collaborative approach." -Jessica THEME — POLICY AS A LEVER TO ADDRESS TEXTILE WASTE & ADVOCATE FOR A CIRCULAR ECONOMY Building on this month's theme of USING POLICY AS A LEVER TO ADDRESS TEXTILE WASTE & ADVOCATE FOR BUILDING A CIRCULAR ECONOMY – in this episode, we're taking a look at it through the lens of a producer responsibility organization or PRO – an entity that helps regulate Extended Producer Responsibility (EPR) legislation through practice. I bring on two guests for this one – one who works with LANDBELL USA (the PRO for California's Textile Recovery Act of 2024) and one from LANDBELL GLOBAL, who through their subsidiary, European Recycling Platform, serve as the PRO or offer compliance management for various textile Extended Producer Responsibility (EPR) bills across the EU. This may sound a bit complex, but basically – they are focused on helping support brands and infrastructure in the transition to regulating new textile EPR legislation. If you've been listening to the show for a while, you've heard me talk about the holy grails or the solutions that folks or media or industry across fashion will often latch onto. They are often platformed as this sort of magical option that could change the way the current system operates. But, as we have talked about before – this is totally unrealistic. There are no one-dimensional so-called solutions that are going to entirely transform this massive and multifaceted industry. Currently – as my guests bring up – EPR or extended producer responsibility legislation is one of those solutions that is being put on the podium as this moment's cure-all for fashion. While EPR legislation is extremely exciting and does have massive potential, I loved hearing from my guests - who are both working directly in this space - about how EPR alone isn't going to address all of the fashion industry's issues. We need additional legislation and infrastructure and other aspects to push real systems change forward. With this complexity in mind, we get into some comparisons between what's going on with textile EPR in California in the U.S. and countries like the Netherlands and others across the EU. I often resist this sort of thing – because it's so layered when there are different cultures, behaviors, and infrastructures involved. But, given the moment that we're in, global alignment seems to be a prevailing theme and a necessity if we want to successfully implement textile EPR into such a worldwide industry. Links from our conversation: Landbell USA <
- 3 weeks ago33 min
Fashion circularity leader Nicole Bassett on why running for office shouldn't be considered a *leap*, why we need more everyday people in government and how policy can be a significant lever in creating change in fashion and beyond
In Episode 345, Kestrel welcomes Nicole Bassett, a leader in circular economy innovation and Oregon State Senate candidate, to the show. In the past, Nicole served as the Social Responsibility Manager at Patagonia, Director of Sustainability at prAna (where she led the launch of Fair Trade certified apparel in the US), and in 2015, she co-founded The Renewal Workshop, a factory that gave unsold products a second life. Today, she runs Citrus Circular, where she helps companies rethink how they operate from the inside out — to waste less and create more value. And she's now running for State Senate in Oregon's 26th District. "Definitely it took me a while to even imagine myself running for office in any way because I just thought it was like, that's a thing a person who decides that they want to do politics does. But for me, and I think for a lot of the listeners and I know you, we have been trying to do change within the apparel industry for a long time. And when you're really focused on change, you focus on like where are the levers of change that can happen to make the biggest impact." -Nicole THEME — POLICY AS A LEVER TO ADDRESS TEXTILE WASTE & ADVOCATE FOR A CIRCULAR ECONOMY This week's guest has an extensive track record of pushing sustainability-oriented initiatives forward in the textile sector, advocating for repair and helping businesses shift their practices toward supporting a circular economy. Recently, she took a so-called leap into the world of politics, running for State Senate in Oregon. But should this move really be considered a leap? Why do we think of her – an everyday engaged citizen – as an unexpected candidate? As she says, "technically, politics in America is representation of the people by the people – and so, average people should be in government." But even for her, it took her a while to come around to imagining herself running for office. But she's doing it. For her, policy should support local communities and healthy soil health, while reducing waste. It should be about understanding how healthy economies and healthy ecosystems are connected, and it should be about active listening. We talk about how vulnerability has influenced her career and current next step, how a circular economy and EPR fit into her political priorities, and how amidst all of today's challenges, she stays optimistic. Quotes and links from our conversation: "And then I also just reflect back, like when we first started the Renewal Workshop and I was pitching it in 2014, and companies would say to us like — we only sell new things and we would never resell our product. And that myth has been busted. We have shifted the industry to have brands who are definitely into the resale as part of their business. And you can argue it's not more and big enough, but it exists — that is a culture change." -Nicole "I think over time, as we were talking about vulnerability — I can sit with the uncomfortable and be like, I'm not correct here and I have an opportunity to learn from this moment and this person." -Nicole Bassett For Oregon, Nicole's campaign website Cascade Circular , Nicole's work in circularity Nicole's Instagram
- Sep 28, 202653 min
Beth Esponnette of Unspun on 3D weaving, how this technology could reduce textile waste, costs and emissions, and what that could mean for systems change across fashion
In Episode 344, Kestrel welcomes Beth Esponette, the Cofounder and CPO at Unspun, to the show. A fashion-tech company, Unspun has built the world's first 3D weaving technology for apparel. Their OneWeave™ system enables woven products to be made locally in California, on demand, and with almost zero waste. "Sewing machines are incredible things and can make products in a really great way. But what if we went to the drawing board and kind of started from scratch and took inspiration from nature and took inspiration from the concepts of growth and decay? And when you get very conceptual and you peel back layers and you take away a lot of the assumptions you've made, you do make some weird choices. But eventually, it might lead to something like a new path." -Beth Building on last week's episode, this show continues to expand on the theme of RETHINKING FASHION'S CONVENTIONAL MANUFACTURING MODELS. I've found myself very enthralled with these two approaches — the idea of digitally dyed denim which we heard about from Adam of Triarchy in our last episode, and another concept we're about to explore in this show. Through each approach, they are basically cutting out steps that are typically required in the clothing manufacturing process today. Through creative solutions, they are engaging in systems change through practice. It's not a theoretical concept they are exploring – they are in the process of doing it. Amidst the current times we are living in, full of performative statements, actions without accountability and a whole lot of AI slop, these two founders are bringing me so much hope. This week's guest has developed a creative solution for garment making – what she and her team call 3D WEAVING. In this reimagined approach, the steps of fabric weaving along with the cut and sew process combine together into one individual step – as they say, they take you from yarn to garment in 20 minutes, all under one roof. As you'll hear from her, there is massive potential to reduce the current environmental impact of the fashion industry through consolidation of the supply chain – which is what my guest's company is hyper-focused on – pushing to reduce global human carbon emissions by 1% through revolutionizing how and where clothing gets made. From yarn to energy to waste, this technology brings very interesting ideas to the fore – we explore how 3D weaving works in practice, the various ways it can reduce emissions, whether the industry is ready for this type of systems change, what a just transition looks like when incorporating this technology, and the complex yet important role that pledges play in pushing for change. Quotes and links from our conversation: "Humans have created the systems that we kind of exist in. We've created our own worlds. And I think we should always be questioning them because yes, this system of how we make clothing has been around for 200 years, but in the grand scheme of things, 200 years is not that long. And there are other ways that we might be able to consider making them." -Beth Unspun's Website The Climate Pledge Unspun's Instagram
- Sep 14, 20261h 1m
Adam Taubenfligel of Triarchy on digitally dyed denim, how this new technology goes beyond "reducing impact" in the making of jeans, and how it could really shake up the sustainable fashion industry
In Episode 343, Kestrel welcomes Adam Taubenfligel, the cofounder, creative director and responsibility lead at Triarchy, to the show. With the goal of restoring integrity to the word sustainable, Adam drives innovation in denim, advancing mindful materials and responsible production at Triarchy. "How many millions of pieces of clothing are we stuck with because the factory had a minimum, the store only ordered this many, that was the cost of doing business, we had to do it, and so here we are. And so, you know, this scale question is influencing everything and creating mountains of garbage so that people can then congratulate themselves on the success of having hit milestones that are not based in any meaningful reality." -Adam THEME — RETHINKING FASHION's Conventional Manufacturing Models For the last 15 years, this week's guest has been entrenched in the denim space, building a brand that in the beginning, was focused on simply making really good jeans. When they realized the intense amount of water waste and chemical harm caused by the denim industry, they quickly brought responsibility into their brand DNA. For years, they have been focused on "reducing their impact" – reducing their water use, reducing the chemicals used, reducing the toxicity in the distressing process … because reduction was the only option they saw possible, when existing within the boundaries of a fashion system built to thrive on overproduction and overconsumption. Until recently … when they discovered a way to entirely remove some of the steps in their supply chain. An opportunity to build an entirely new system that could truly shake up what it looks like to manufacture a pair of jeans today. Like he wrote in a recent Substack article – "The future of sustainable fashion will not depend on everyone making better choices forever. It will depend on creating systems that no longer require them to. Because the best sustainability decision is the one you never have to make." Quotes and links from our conversation: "In fashion, there doesn't really ever seem to be a conversation around anything other than growth. So growth requires consumption, and then consumption requires cheaper pricing. So then cheaper pricing requires less responsible choices. So then we're all just making future garbage so that we can consume more and make companies grow so that they can become quote unquote more successful. I'm so confused around what the definition of success means in fashion. I will so often see people talking about the success of a financial milestone or another store being opened or another this and that. Like, we did it, we worked so hard, this is so incredible. And I'm like, right, but this is all irrelevant future garbage. What are we celebrating exactly?" -Adam Adam's Substack WTRLSS Triarchy's Website Triarchy's Instagram
- Jul 14, 202654 min
Designer Olivia Cueva of Oakland Style Lab on the overlapping of biomaterials research, fashion design, & community-centered education as a multifaceted approach to rethinking fashion's systems
In Episode 342, Kestrel welcomes Olivia Cueva, a radical dreamer, designer, technologist, and researcher, to the show. Olivia's work bridges creative technology, fashion, biomaterials, and storytelling to explore transformation, regeneration, and collective care. Her practice moves fluidly between community-centered education, speculative design, and research into sustainable and bio-based materials—always with the aim of sparking dialogue, nurturing resilience, and envisioning more just futures. "A lot of the research that I do now is focused on natural dyes and working with plants and seeing how the natural dyes that we would maybe normally use on natural fibers actually translate to biomaterials. it's been a really amazing process of returning or like sort of remembering ancestry in a way … when I'm working with a certain plant, I'm actually not just looking at its color properties, but I'm also researching what is the story of this plant? How has it been used in different indigenous cultures?" -Olivia THEME — EXPANSIONS AROUND MATERIALITY TO RETHINK FASHION'S SYSTEMS Before we dive in this week, I want to share a massive thank you and shout out to my friend Denali Joie, who was featured back on episode 312. Denali helped connect me with this week's guest after meeting her in Brazil at a conference. You can listen to my episode with Denali here > I am so grateful for this connection as it led to this week's guest's cofounder attending the Design For Compliance workshop Gabi and I hosted at UC Berkeley through Fashion Is Outrageous, and led to the amazing conversation that you're about to hear. Sometimes, we don't slow down enough to realize how these tiny links lead to really beautiful future moments, and I just wanted to take a moment to honor Denali and the way that she instigated this beautiful unfolding. This week, we're talking about a super intriguing overlapping of biomaterials research with community-centered education. My guest, Olivia, has woven these seemingly diverse practices into her extremely expansive work. However, when we get into it, and she talks about using "Future-Facing Innovation" to reimagine our relationships with garments and the systems around us, or she shares more on how her biomaterials research links with Oakland Style Lab, a sustainable fashion education program and community cultural hub dedicated to building a more inclusive and resilient fashion ecosystem in the Bay Area – the correlations are beautifully seamless. She shares with us how ancestral knowledge and intergenerational learning drive her work and how throughout it all, she focuses on slowing down in order to better reclaim critical thinking amidst the current world we live in. Amidst the consistently depressing political times we are existing within, it's a refreshingly grounded take that definitely helped me feel optimistic and further motivated. "Fashion is so interesting because we're all connected to this industry, whether we care about what we wear or not. Right? Like we all wear clothes for the most part. It's something that touches every society. Whether we shop fast fashion, we only shop thrift, we only shop sustainable fashion brands or we shop at Target — you know, we all are participating in this system and the system is generating so many clothes and textiles and so much waste, and so many people are not aware of that." -Olivia Oakland Style Lab's Website Olivia's Website Oakland Style Lab Instagram Olivia's Instagram
- May 25, 20261h 5m
Dr. Joanne Brasch of the California Product Stewardship Council on SB 707 The Textile Recovery Act Of 2024 - the nation's first textile EPR bill
In Episode 341, Kestrel welcomes Dr. Joanne Brasch, the Assistant Director at the California Product Stewardship Council (CPSC), to the show. A network of local governments, non-government organizations, businesses, and individuals supporting policies and projects where producers share in the responsibility for managing problem products at their end of life, CPSC is California's thought leader and expert on Product Stewardship and the Extended Producer Responsibility (EPR) movement. "We're most proud of our textile EPR program because we achieved a lot in SB 707 that set a new level, a new generation of EPR programs that take a higher priority and implement a lot more reuse and repair throughout the program." -Joanne THEME — EXTENDED PRODUCER RESPONSIBILITY & TEXTILE WASTE DIVERSION This episode is the second in our two-part series dedicated to exploring some of the layers around Extended Producer Responsibility, or EPR, and Textile Waste Diversion. In line with this conversation, I want to share about an upcoming event I'm collaborating on that's taking place in Los Angeles on June 10th. The Recovered Textile Exhibit is hosted by the City and County of Los Angeles, the California Product Stewardship Council, and the LA Cleantech Incubator. It's funded by CalRecycle, LA Sanitation, and others, and is in collaboration with Afflare.co and Fashion Is Outrageous. There will be keynote speakers, discussions, and interactive activities that my cofounder Gabi and I helped develop, all with a focus on textile circularity and diverting textiles from the landfill. Additionally, the PRO (Producer Responsibility Organization), Landbell, will be present at the event. If you're interested in attending, you can RSVP here. If you're able to join, I hope to see you there! On the last show, we touched on some of the big picture ideas around EPR, and many of the questions around how we can make these circular systems practical. On this week's episode, we're diving deep into the first-ever textile EPR bill in the U.S., SB 707: The Responsible Textile Recovery Act of 2024. While this isn't the first EPR policy to hit California or the nation, it is the first to cover TEXTILES. I chat with someone who played an integral role in the legislative process for the bill – we dive into more on their open-collaborative approach and the importance of community-informed programs, we explore what the "most diverse board requirements" means within the context of SB 707, we learn about how feedback played a distinct role in the legislative process including some from the Or Foundation, and we discuss some of the definitions within the bill like REUSE and RECYCLE, with a focus on unpacking the definition of REPAIR, which is the first global definition that includes upcycling. You will hear words and phrases like PRO, Needs Assessment, dynamic, legislative and regulatory process, and more. We do our best to help contextualize these definitions along the way, but if you have questions, let me know. I don't want this to feel like another policy conversation that leaves you in the dark – I want it to feel like you can feel welcomed into it, as this is a monumental bill for California and the sustainability and fashion industry as a whole. One of my favorite things about this bill is that it's DYNAMIC, meaning it will change over time, and be rewritten every 5 years, based on key findings and learnings. So remember – your voice can play an important role in how this bill continues to evolve moving forward. Also, to note – when this episode was recorded, our guest's new title had not yet been released publicly. Congrats to her, as she is now the Assistant Director – you'll actually hear her reveal it to us later on in the episode. Quotes and links from our conversation: "If we're shopping in a different way 20 years from now, this program can adapt to that because the plan is rewritten every five years and has evidence-based decision-making provisions within the program." -Joanne on why SB 707 being a dynamic bill matters "I think the open collaborative approach has really been making sure everyone is using the same language and understands the same process so we can get the best engagement now." -Joanne on CPSC's approach to developing community-informed programs "We know repair costs more. We know that it's labor intensive, but we also know,
- May 11, 202643 min
Constanza Gomez of Sortile on the questions we should be asking around EPR policy, a tool to support textile recycling, and the need for more research and data in the textile sector
In Episode 340, Kestrel welcomes Constanza Gomez, the cofounder and CEO of Sortile, to the show. Sortile is a company focused on empowering the textile recycling industry with technology that enables the identification, sorting and traceability of textiles. "I was a much more hopeful person when I started this company and I've slowly become more of a skeptic. But that means I've leaned more heavily on the need for regulation versus people acting of their own free and good hearts. And so I think the opportunity is great. You can redefine and set real incentives to manage end of life better." -Constanza THEME — EXTENDED PRODUCER RESPONSIBILITY & TEXTILE WASTE DIVERSION EPR, or Extended Producer Responsibility, has come up on the show in the past in various capacities – we first talked about it in depth back on episode 275 with Liz Ricketts and Sammy Oteng from The Or Foundation when they were the first grant recipient of SHEIN's Extended Producer Responsibility (EPR) Fund to help manage textile waste. Just to get our minds on track for this chat – EPR or Extended Producer Responsibility initiatives or legislation ideally ensure that producers are required to assume the costs of collection, treating, and recycling of the end-of-life of their products. We are currently in a very exciting time when it comes to EPR policy around the world – there are mandatory schemes in France, Sweden and the Netherlands, with others on the horizon … and where I'm based, here in California, the nation's first EPR policy for textiles, SB 707, passed in 2024, and is currently moving through the process of being implemented. There are still SO MANY UNKNOWNS when it comes to how these policies are going to play out, but one thing that this week's guest sees as a benefit to this shifting legislation is – MORE ACCESS TO DATA. As she shares, we just don't have enough data on the textile industry, and when we do, it's generally static data. When EPR comes into play, companies are going to HAVE to report and share specific data, which is going to bring in a much more consistent stream of data and over time, will lead to having more access to dynamic data as well. This week's guest sees the direct link between research and data, and the need for more of both across the textile space to support more textile diversion – her own research led her to develop a table top textile scanner that helps determine the fiber composition of textiles, a massive support in the sorting process. We talk about that, but also bigger questions around the opportunities and challenges she sees with EPR policy. I have to say – one thing this week's guest absolutely nailed in our conversations is – posing which questions that we should be asking right now with a big focus on – how do we make these systems practical? Sortile Website Follow Sortile on Instagram
- Feb 3, 202650 min
Beth Jensen of Textile Exchange on fashion's complex history with data, how the organization is addressing it through their open-source reporting and the need to ensure the search for *perfect data* doesn't hinder real action
In Episode 339, Kestrel welcomes Beth Jensen, the Chief Impact Officer at Textile Exchange, to the show. Leading the organization's efforts to achieve beneficial climate and nature impacts, Beth oversees key functions at Textile Exchange including impact data and Life Cycle Assessment studies; impact tools and reporting mechanisms; reports and research; fundraising; and public affairs/policy. "A big part of vulnerability is really admitting that you don't have all the answers. So in sustainability, in fashion, apparel, and textile space, this is just the way we have to operate. If you said you had all the answers, you wouldn't be taken seriously in this space … What you present as data might change the next time you present it because you have new and better information. You just have to be able to work in the gray and really take the best available information and make informed decisions based on that information." -Beth THEME — DATA & FASHION: METHODS & ACCESS Before we dive in, I want to take a moment to remind us all that FASHION IS POLITICAL. Whenever a big politically-charged moment arises in the U.S., there is this narrative I see creeping around that expects fashion (brands, designers, creators, etc) to stay silent on quote unquote political issues – that fashion should stay in its so-called lane, detached from the world around it. Here's the thing – FASHION IS POLITICAL. It always has been and it always will be. It doesn't exist in its own little vacuum. If you care about the fashion industry, and its impact on people and the planet, it's imminent to pay attention and engage in so-called politics, because it's entirely interconnected. Just to mention a few of these significant overlaps – The origins of the fashion industry in the United States – cotton grown by Black enslaved folks who were forced to immigrate – is political. The way clothing supply chains operate – predominantly spread across the Global South where our clothes are made by mostly women of color, who are often paid less than a living wage – is political. How certain materials permeate the fashion industry – fossil fuel-derived fibers AKA plastic. While other natural fibers were historically made illegal to grow AKA hemp – is political. The largest garment manufacturing city in the U.S. is Los Angeles, employing over 46,000 garment workers, most of whom are immigrant women from Mexico and Central America. L.A. is the wage theft capital of the U.S., with the average hourly wage being $5.85 (Labor Violations In The LA Garment Industry, Garment Worker Center, 2020) The institutionalized violent origins of ICE as well as the continued horrific acts they have made toward immigrants and nonimmigrants, fellow members of our communities – is political. As Faherty called it in their recent IG post – systemic inhumanity affects us all – our families, friends, colleagues, neighbors and communities, and that is political. If you try to separate fashion from politics, clothing from humans, it's impossible. Clothing is made by people who are integral members of our communities and valued creatives along the supply chain. We must advocate for our fellow community members and the safety of our neighbors. This is the second episode is a 2-part series dedicated to DATA IN FASHION. While many of you may already have an understanding of these elements, I think they are important to reframe and contextualize the following conversation. The fashion industry and the so-called sustainable fashion space has a concerning history with data. The so-called stat – fashion is the 2nd largest polluter globally, second only to oil – unfortunately spread like wildfire before it was found to be unsubstantiated – in 2017, journalist Alden Wicker brought this to light in an article on Racked, and the NY Times did a deep dive into it the following year, calling it the "biggest fake news in fashion". It's clear that the fashion industry has a massive impact
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About Conscious Chatter
The first global sustainable fashion podcast, Conscious Chatter opens the door to conversations about our clothing + the layers of stories, meaning and potential impact connected to what we wear. Hosted by Kestrel Jenkins, Conscious Chatter tackles nuanced topics that intersect with sustainability, fashion, systems of oppression, health, and wellbeing through a curiosity-driven lens. Through deep dive monthly themes, the focus is on making the conversation more circular.
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