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We've Got To Talk: Daily Summaries Delivered
by Nicole Fonarow and Jolene Conway
Our story begins in the halls of the University of Iowa, go Hawks! It was there that two seemingly different paths intersected and a friendship blossomed. Despite our different upbringings—Jolene in little Pleasantville, Iowa, and me, Nicole, just across the Golden Gate Bridge in the bustling Bay Area—we became fast friends. And here we are, almost 40 years later, living in a world that often seems intent on drawing lines in the sand and choosing sides.So why "We've Got To Talk"? Because we truly believe that in this deeply divided society, the power of conversation can unite us. Our goal isn't to change each other's opinions, but to listen with curiosity, kindness, and empathy. And yes, to have a good time while doing it!We invite you to join us on this journey and bring your friends along. We might not have all the answers or any of them—but we promise honesty, empathy, and a lot of heart. We hope our conversations give you a fresh outlook or at least entertain you as you go abou
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- 3 days ago1h 6m
Is Your News Diet All Junk Food? Mo News on Bias, AI & Trust
Jolene used to start every morning with Fox News until her daughter, Bobbi told her to switch to Mo News, and now both of us listen. So we were thrilled to sit down with Mosheh Oinounou, founder of Mo News and former executive producer of the CBS Evening News, and Jill Wagner, the managing editor and co-host of the Mo News Podcast. They tell the origin story of Mo News, which began as Covid lockdown-era Instagram Stories sent to friends and family and grew into a daily podcast, newsletter and team of more than a dozen.We dig into the state of the media, with Mo making the case both for and against legacy media. Outlets like CBS and the Washington Post still have the resources to hold power to account, but the business model is breaking as advertisers move to Google and Facebook and AI summaries eat the clicks. Mosheh shares that Americans rank last in the Reuters global survey on trust in the media, and he and Jill explain how Mo News tries to earn trust by answering questions, admitting mistakes, and trying to equally upset both sides.We talk about news diets, media bias and how stories get picked. Mosheh explains why he tells students to treat news like a diet, with some chocolate but plenty of broccoli, and why the goal of much cable news is to make you angry. We also get a behind-the-scenes look at how the team decides what to cover, from the Russian plague story to why Washington is more Veep than House of Cards, plus honest feedback from us on coverage that went too far, and a frank conversation about newsroom politics and Gen Z.CHAPTER MARKERS:00:00 Introduction02:36 Mo News Origin Story07:31 Future Of Legacy Media10:28 AI Eating Media15:25 Americans Trust Media Last19:37 Your News Diet23:36 Fox And MSNOW Experiment27:40 Foreign Coverage Blind Spots30:15 What Makes A Story34:44 Washington Is Veep36:19 AI Warning Signs38:04 Armchair Detective Fatigue48:00 Newsroom Bias And Gen Z53:55 Good For The Soul57:44 Where To Find Mo NewsRESOURCES MENTIONEDMo News: https://www.mo.news/Mo News Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mosheh Mo News YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/moshehnews Mo News Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MoshehNews Mo News X: https://x.com/Mosheh Mo News TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@mosheh Good for the Soul: Puzzles and Pick Up the Phone! WGTT LINKS:Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalkApple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2WGTT Website: https://www.wevegottotalk.com/ How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/
- 1 weeks ago38 min
Midterm Predictions: Who Deserves Your Vote
The USA 2026 Midterms are coming, and it feels like the whole country is being held hostage by political ads. They are everywhere, and a lot of them aren’t designed to inform you; they’re designed to polarize you. Jolene and I talk about how the media cycle shapes your nervous system, why constant outrage makes us less informed, and how both parties use fear to rally their base and keep voters reactive.We also get into polling, because at this point it can feel like a daily anxiety machine. “The race is tightening.” “Momentum is shifting.” But who actually answers polls anymore, and what do small sample sizes really tell us in a country this big? We unpack why midterm election polls often create more noise than clarity, and how they can push people into gloating, spiralling, or checking out before voting even starts.On a personal level, we talk about the very real frustration of choosing between candidates you don’t love. In New York’s 10th Congressional District, I’ve had that “lesser of two evils” feeling more than once, and Jolene’s point is simple: this isn’t just a liberal problem or a conservative problem. It’s a system problem, and the system rarely rewards candidates trying to serve the middle during US elections.We share how we’re shifting from fear to facts with grounded sources like Gabe Fleisher’s Wake Up to Politics https://www.youtube.com/@wakeuptopolitics , and why it still matters to vote even if you have to hold your nose. We also talk about tools like Bridgegrades.org , following the money, and slowing down on purpose so you can make a clear-headed choice instead of getting played by the outrage machine.CHAPTER MARKERS:00:00 Introduction01:41 Why Polls Feel Useless07:52 Are Any Races Competitive10:29 Predictions House vs Senate10:55 Attack Ads Get Ugly12:40 Money Flooding Elections16:15 Voting Early and Ballot Confusion17:39 Judges and Local Races Matter20:04 Tools for Smarter Voting24:43 Big States To Watch25:12 Cities Poverty And DSA29:31 Minnesota Senate Spotlight30:32 Polls Margin Of Error32:08 Election Night Survival TipsRESOURCES MENTIONEDGabe Fleisher's Substack Wake Up to Politics: https://open.substack.com/pub/wakeuptopolitics/p/everyone-thinks-theyre-going-to-win?r=n7so4&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=emailGabe Fleisher’s YouTube Wake up to Politics:https://www.youtube.com/@wakeuptopolitics We Made This Political Podcast: https://wemadethispolitical.substack.com/p/ep-68-gabe-fleisher-on-saving-political Isaac Saul:The Dark Side Behind Fear Based Political Ads https://youtu.be/vbMCeI19PPE?si=vaIQimN8HPU-7zJ7 Tangle: https://www.instagram.com/p/Deu29OvDw1m/?img_index=3 Bridge Grades: https://www.bridgegrades.org/ Brad Porteus: https://youtu.be/g4kH4AFXqNs?si=7NtBFT4VRICC7SmZ Marc Goldwein: https://youtu.be/PH8naCqamcE?si=HV05zuJ7-4G_B_wm Watch Midterms Live here: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@MoNews" rel="noopener nore
- 2 weeks ago1h 6m
New Pluralists Is Betting $40 Million that Americans Can Still Get Along | Liz Vogel
“Underneath every complaint is a hope.” That line from Liz Vogel stopped Jolene and I in our tracks, because once you hear it, you see it everywhere. The angry post, the rant at the school meeting, the neighbor who won’t stop talking about how everything’s gone downhill often isn’t just complaining. It’s someone asking, in the only way they know how, to be seen, to be heard, and to feel like someone actually cares.We sat down with Liz Vogel, Executive Director of New Pluralists, to talk about bridging divides in a politically divided America without trying to change each other’s minds. Liz is also training as a death doula, and she explains why that work connects so naturally to pluralism, because at the end of life, what people want most is to be understood on their own terms. That same need sits underneath so much of our conflict right now.Liz breaks down what New Pluralists actually does: it’s a funder collaborative investing in local organizations across the US that are doing the real work of building cooperation, reducing isolation, and helping communities stay in relationship even when they disagree. This is about depolarization, social cohesion, and rebuilding trust, not creating a country where everyone thinks the same or forcing a “mushy middle” where convictions don’t matter.We talk about pluralism as a practical way to live together in a diverse society while still solving problems together. The goal isn’t to win arguments or convert people; it’s to humanize each other again and stop treating the person across from you like a symbol. CHAPTER MARKERS:00:00 Introduction03:24 What New Pluralists Does05:24 How Funding Works09:26 Cross Partisan Grantees16:27 Defining Pluralism23:48 Dehumanization And Distrust27:10 Death Doula Lens36:15 Grief And Rituals41:29 From Grief To Grievance44:19 New Pluralists Mission49:43 Inside The Grant Process55:19 Pluralism And Hope PracticeRESOURCES MENTIONEDNew Pluralists Website: https://newpluralists.org/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/newpluralists/posts/?feedView=allLinkedIn Liz: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lizvogel23/Liz's Good for the Soul: https://goodreads.com/book/show/43708884.The_Boy__the_Mole__the_Fox_and_the_HorseLINKS:Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalkApple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/
- 3 weeks ago1h 0m
We Spend More on Interest Than Defense: We’re In A Debt Crisis | Marc Goldwein
Jolene and I have been trying to work out whether the US is actually in a financial emergency, or whether we’re just stuck in the usual loop of scary headlines, charts, and people yelling on cable news. Because after a while you either spiral or you go numb, and neither one helps you understand what’s real. So we spoke to economist Marc Goldwein, and instead of drama, he gave us the calm, numbers-based version, which was somehow more unsettling.Marc’s view is blunt: the US is in the worst financial shape it’s ever been in, at least in the ways that matter for what comes next. He points to 10-year and 30-year Treasury yields being the highest since the early 2000s, which matters because higher interest rates plus massive national debt means the cost of servicing that debt starts eating everything else. It’s like carrying a credit card balance you can’t pay down, then watching the interest rate jump while you try to keep living your life as normal.The part that really lands is this: US interest payments now exceed national defense spending. That’s not a talking point, it’s a budget reality, and it changes what the government can afford to do. Marc also explains that while the national debt is close to its World War II level, the interest burden is worse, with interest as a share of the economy roughly doubling. So even if the debt number feels historically familiar, the pressure it creates today is not.Then we get to the obvious question: if it’s this bad, why aren’t we fixing it? Marc’s answer is basically incentives. Politicians get rewarded for cutting taxes and handing out benefits, and punished for asking people to pay more or accept less. Add in the time-horizon problem, where leaders focus on the next election instead of the next decade, and you get a system that keeps kicking the can until it turns into a wrecking ball. The takeaway is uncomfortable but simple: this isn’t only a politician problem, it’s also a voter problem, and if we don’t face it now, we’re handing future generations a country where more and more money goes to interest and less goes to anything that actually makes life better.CHAPTER MARKERS:00:00 Introduction03:09 Why Debt Keeps Rising04:17 Social Security Clock06:47 Explaining The Trust Fund12:22 Simpson Bowles Lessons19:11 Two Big New Ideas23:27 AARP And Political Will27:00 What It Takes To Reform29:21 Commissions Versus Regular Order32:54 Why AARP Has Power34:49 Debt Versus Deficit41:12 Fixes Healthcare Waste45:04 Tax Reform And Revenue51:48 Your Civic Assignment53:56 Where To Find CRFBRESOURCES MENTIONEDCommittee For A Responsible Federal Budget: https://www.crfb.org/ Marc's Good for the Soul: https://marthastable.org/ LINKS:Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalkApple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/
- Oct 7, 202658 min
Tribalism Is Destroying American Politics | Lura Forcum
Most of us don’t want “our side” to win. We want the country to work, with less chaos, less political theater, and fewer people getting rich off outrage while nothing gets fixed. We’re joined by Lura Forcum, a consumer and social psychologist who studies the human dynamics underneath politics, identity, belonging, and why we get so weird around people who disagree with us.Lura breaks down why “tribalism” isn’t just a buzzword. It’s the system underneath the system, and the real danger isn’t bickering; it’s dehumanization. Once the other side feels like an existential threat, we stop having policy conversations and start living in a survival story, and you can’t govern well from that place.We also talk about competitive politics versus tribal politics, and why purity tests on both sides reward warriors instead of statesmen. Lura explains how parties stop listening to voters and start dictating terms, and why policy so often gets made without talking to the people who actually live under it.If you’re disillusioned, tired, or waiting for the perfect candidate, Lura’s message is simple: vote anyway. Vote as an independent thinker, show up for primaries, and reward decency and public service over performative outrage. Her final assignment is surprisingly wholesome and honestly needed right now: have a potluck, break bread, and rebuild community face to face.CHAPTER MARKERS:00:00 Introduction04:15 Tribal vs Competitive Politics07:44 Warriors and Purity Tests15:29 Rebuilding Civic Culture18:15 Entitlement Reform Reality Check22:11 Why Parties Ignore Voters26:41 Independents and Real Competition35:46 Why Primaries Matter38:53 Decency Over Policy Purity44:03 Social Media and Tribal Rage48:05 Potluck as Civic MedicineRESOURCES MENTIONEDWhere to Find Lura:https://www.linkedin.com/in/luraforcum/https://www.facebook.com/lura.forcumhttps://substack.com/@luraforcumhttps://www.instagram.com/luraforcum/https://www.youtube.com/@LuraForcum_HowtoHumanLura’s Podcast: https://wemadethispolitical.substack.com/https://www.youtube.com/@WeMadeThisPoliticalLINKS:Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalkApple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/
- Sep 30, 202649 min
"Bridgers vs. Dividers: The Report Card That Could Change the Midterms "
Most of us don’t actually want “our side” to win. We want the country to work, with less chaos, less political theatre, and fewer people getting rich off outrage while nothing gets fixed.This week we welcomed Brad Porteus from Bridge Grades back onto the podcast, and his idea is refreshingly simple. Bridge Grades is a congressional report card that doesn’t measure ideology, it measures collaboration. It uses nonpartisan, third-party data to score how lawmakers govern, so you can get a clearer read on who builds across the aisle and who fuels division.What hit us most is how much this challenges the way we’re trained to vote. Most people don’t vote based on effectiveness; they vote based on identity, fear, habit, or revenge, and if you’re deeply loyal to a party, a report card probably won’t change your mind. The bigger opportunity is everyone else, especially the exhausted middle and the millions of eligible Americans who didn’t vote last election because they don’t trust anyone and don’t see the point.If you’re curious, use Bridge Grades as a second lens before the next election. Look up your lawmakers, notice what happens in your own head when you see a grade you didn’t expect, and ask what we’re rewarding as a culture. Because if we keep voting like it’s a tribal loyalty test, we’re going to keep getting tribal outcomes, and we’ll all keep sitting here wondering why nothing works.CHAPTER MARKERS:00:00 Introduction00:21 Meet Brad and Bridge Grades01:49 How the Scoring Works07:29 Legislative Metrics Explained11:22 Gaming the Bipartisan Score13:47 Performative Bridging Debate17:37 Exhausted Middle and Independents20:29 Bridgers at Risk in Swing Seats28:26 Roasting Government Dysfunction31:41 Texas Race Trust Issues34:14 Breaking Tribal Partisanship36:32 Reaching the Disengaged Millions38:05 Shift from Party to IdeologyRESOURCES MENTIONED:Brad's Good for the Soul:Otis Cutts Old Music Friday: https://www.instagram.com/owencutts/?hl=enLINKS:Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalkApple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/
- Sep 23, 202639 min
What If We Replaced Politicians With Regular People Picked by Lottery?
We’ve lost a lot of trust in politicians in America, and it’s not hard to see why. Politics feels like a permanent campaign where leaders are performing, fundraising, and protecting their careers while the real problems keep getting worse.Our guest is Adam Cronkright, creator of the film Goodbye Politicians Hello Democracy, which explores a bold alternative to the current political system. Adam’s idea is simple but disruptive: replace career politicians with ordinary citizens selected by lottery, supported with experts and staff, and asked to make decisions on behalf of their communities. It’s a conversation about democratic lotteries, citizen assemblies, and what “government by the people” could actually mean in practice.We talk about why elections often produce a political class instead of real representation, and how incentives like party loyalty, media attention, and fundraising have turned politics into theatre. Adam shares what happened when 30 regular people in Michigan were selected during 2020 to work through pandemic decisions together, and why good faith disagreement becomes possible when nobody is angling for re-election or scoring points for social media.If you’re tired of political polarisation, the two-party system, and the feeling that you’re just a spectator in your own democracy, this episode offers a hopeful, practical reframe. It’s about accountability, trust, civic participation, and whether citizens could govern more effectively than professional politicians.CHAPTER MARKERS:00:00 Introduction00:22 Meet Adam Cronkright05:19 Why Make This Film07:18 Democratic Lottery Explained09:17 How Selection Works14:07 Where Democracy Goes Next18:10 A Post Party System22:25 Pushback and Corruption27:34 Extremes and Being Heard30:19 How to Watch the FilmRESOURCES MENTIONED:Goodbye Politicians, Hello Democracy: https://goodbyepoliticians.movie/Adam's Good for the Soul: My Unsung Hero podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/my-unsung-hero/id1586880312https://open.spotify.com/show/2lBDAGE8UkizPEC2ZjmgaPLINKS:Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalkApple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/
- Sep 16, 202657 min
How to Talk to “The Enemy” with Larry Rosen
Politics can feel like a loyalty test now. Like you are either on the right team, or you are a threat. In this conversation with Larry Rosen, attorney turned mediator and host of The Enemies Project YouTube docuseries, we talk about what happens when people stop seeing each other as humans and start treating politics like a team sport.Larry’s work sits right in the middle of the biggest problems in political polarization and social division: we assume intention, we fill in the blanks with the worst story, and we turn disagreement into moral war. We unpack why conflict is rarely just about the surface issue, how “enemy making” works, and why curiosity feels like betrayal when the nervous system is in threat mode.We also get into Larry’s approach to depolarization and conflict resolution, including rapport-building, extreme perspective taking, and the moment that changes everything: helping people understand what the other person is trying to protect. It is not about forcing agreement. It is about making it harder to keep the other side as a cartoon, and easier to have hard conversations without dehumanising each other.If you care about bridging the political divide, civil discourse, and how to talk to people you disagree with without damaging your relationships beyond repair, this one will land. It is a reminder that healing is not soft, and it is not naive; it is one of the only paths out of the loop we are stuck in.CHAPTER MARKERS:00:00 Introduction00:22 Meet Larry Rosen02:50 From Lawyer to Mediator05:43 Why Enemies Project Started12:20 Enemies Project Format15:49 Extreme Perspective Taking19:37 Healthy Conflict Zone23:33 Platforming and Safety30:38 Casting Real Enemies34:29 Why Activists Fight35:39 Low Empathy And AI42:22 Future Of Enemies ProjectRESOURCES MENTIONED:https://www.enemiesproject.org/Larry's Good for the Soul: https://youtube.com/shorts/aFuuyibkx1Q?si=MhVJvWhH5SMGPDdb LINKS:On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalkOn Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/
About We've Got To Talk
Our story begins in the halls of the University of Iowa, go Hawks! It was there that two seemingly different paths intersected and a friendship blossomed. Despite our different upbringings—Jolene in little Pleasantville, Iowa, and me, Nicole, just across the Golden Gate Bridge in the bustling Bay Area—we became fast friends. And here we are, almost 40 years later, living in a world that often seems intent on drawing lines in the sand and choosing sides.So why "We've Got To Talk"? Because we truly believe that in this deeply divided society, the power of conversation can unite us. Our goal isn't to change each other's opinions, but to listen with curiosity, kindness, and empathy. And yes, to have a good time while doing it!We invite you to join us on this journey and bring your friends along. We might not have all the answers or any of them—but we promise honesty, empathy, and a lot of heart. We hope our conversations give you a fresh outlook or at least entertain you as you go abou
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