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- Jan 30, 202512 min
Preview: Episode One of Devil And The Deep Blue Sea
Welcome to Season One of Devil and the Deep Blue Sea, where we explore the strange and troubling era of the 1980s and ’90s when America—especially the evangelical church—became convinced that satanic ritual abuse and occult activity hid around every corner. From local news reports warning of dark rituals to churches hosting “record burnings” to purge secular music, fear of a hidden, demonic conspiracy dominated the cultural landscape. In this preview of our first episode, "The Devil Went Down To Arkansas", host Mike Cosper introduces two stories that seem worlds apart—The Duggar Family, a symbol of conservative Christian values, and The West Memphis Three, a tragic case driven by hysteria and misinformation. To hear the full episode, subscribe to Devil And The Deep Blue Sea wherever you find your podcasts. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
- Dec 17, 20242 min
An Update from Mike Cosper
From the creators of the hit podcast The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill comes a new show, Devil and the Deep Blue Sea, which takes you back to the Satanic Panic that gripped America in the 1980s and 90s. This limited series explores how hysteria gripped parents and teens through cautionary tales like Go Ask Alice, influenced notorious criminal cases like the West Memphis Three, and catapulted the political agenda of the Moral Majority. Join as we seek to understand how this wave of panic devastated innocent lives and diverted the church’s attention from the evil lurking in its own pews. Episodes drop January 2025 but you can join our show discussion page on Facebook right now. Devil and the Deep Blue Sea is a production of Christianity Today Host and Creator - Mike Cosper Producer - Rebekah Sebastian Sound Design and Engineering - T.J. Hester Motion - Steven Scheidler Production Assistant - Dawn Adams Theme music by Dirt Poor Robins Cover art by Nim Ben-Reuven Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper are the Executive Producers of CT Media Podcasts, and Matt Stevens is our Senior Producer. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
- Nov 11, 202242 min
Epilogue: A Return to Seattle
More than two years since producer Mike Cosper began recording interviews for the show, The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill returns with its most poignant episode yet -- a road trip to Seattle to stand in the spaces where Mars Hill Church began. This epilogue of the critically-acclaimed podcast sends Cosper and executive producer Erik Petrik on a trip down memory lane, visiting the buildings and church members who formed the vibrant community that would one day fall apart. From Seattle living rooms crammed with chairs to an empty sanctuary slated for demolition, discover afresh the mystery of God working in broken places. And, as you see how “time humbles and reveals all,” let the story of Mars Hill compel you toward truth not trends, grace not grandeur. Come, meet the people and places that have remained, marked indelibly with love for the gospel and for Seattle. Meet those who never left. As this series concludes, a special thanks to: Joy Beth Smith, Andrea Palpant Dilley, Morgan Lee, Russell Moore, Ted Olsen, Daniel Silliman and Kate Shellnutt. Thank you, especially to Tim Dalrymple and Erik Petrik, Kate Siefker and to Sarah and the Cosper girls. Thank you to the members of Mars Hill Church, especially, Wendy Alsup, Jesse Bryan, Sutton Turner, Tim Smith, Aaron Gray, Jen Smidt and Ben Vandermeer. “The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Producer: Erik Petrik Producer, Writer, Editor, Host, and Mix Engineer: Mike Cosper Associate Producers: Azurae Phelps and Joy Beth Smith Director of Operations: Matt Stevens Music and Sound Design: Kate Siefker Graphic Design: Bryan Todd Social Media: Kate Lucky Editorial Consultant: Andrea Palpant Dilley Editor in Chief: Russell Moore Closing Song: "Satisfied in You" by Brian Eichelberger Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
- Aug 26, 202249 min
Bonus Episode: A Conversation with Dan Allender
When author and therapist Dan Allender met Mark Driscoll in 1998, he hoped the two might share building space for their respective ministries. While conversations remained cordial, it didn't take long for Allender to realize he and Mark aimed to build entirely different institutions -- Allender, a school for healing and trauma care, and Mark, a faith community with the aspirations of Babel. Narcissism would keep the two from building on a common foundation. Thirty years later, Allender joins host Mike Cosper for an honest conversation about where that narcissism led and how Mars Hill Church and the city of Seattle suffered under its dogmatism. With incisive yet gentle wisdom, Allender opens the aperture beyond Mars Hill to discuss how trauma creates wounds on which narcissism thrives, how the numbness of anger can lead to isolation, and how the very real joy of spiritual connection can leave hurting people confused and ashamed after the structures they've trusted crumble. If you've experienced spiritual abuse or you desire deeper honesty and humility in ministry, this bonus episode offers a foundational conversation about how to face trauma, how to identify unhealthy leadership patterns, and how to resist the siren call of sin that lures Christians to greatness without cost. For more information about Dan Allender’s work, visit theallendercenter.org “The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Producer: Erik Petrik Producer, Writer, Host, and Mix Engineer: Mike Cosper Editor: Mark Owens Associate Producers: Joy Beth Smith and Azurae Phelps Music and Sound Design: Kate Siefker Graphic Design: Bryan Todd Social Media: Kate Lucky Editor in Chief: Timothy Dalrymple Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
- Jul 20, 202256 min
Bonus Episode: Healing and Resurrection After Spiritual Trauma
The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill tells the stories of myriad hurts committed in the name of Christ and his church. Real pain inflicted on real people has consequences; and, for many in the Mars Hill community, the ripple effects have been long lasting. Individuals' spiritual trauma has born out in subsequent church relationships and even personal spiritual practices like Bible study and prayer. In a culture enamored with therapeutic lingo, it can be hard to determine what true trauma is. Spend any time on social media, and you'll find claims of trauma and invocations against toxic people, especially those associated with the church. Exhorted by Scripture to be "wise as serpents and harmless as doves," how can we discern this kind of abuse when we experience it? How can we create organizations that are hospitable to the hurting? And, what can we do to recover? In this bonus episode of The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, host Mike Cosper sits down with therapist Aundi Kolber to investigate the roots of spiritual trauma and chart a path forward after pain. Committed to an integrated view of humans as divine image bearers, Kolber explains the necessity of embodiment in our spiritual lives and offers practical tips for starting the process of repair after trauma. You can learn more about Aundi and her work at www.aundikolber.com “The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Producer: Erik Petrik Producer, Writer, Editor, Host, and Mix Engineer: Mike Cosper Associate Producers: Joy Beth Smith and Azurae Phelps Music and Sound Design: Kate Siefker Graphic Design: Rick Szuecs Social Media: Kate Lucky Editorial Consultant: Andrea Palpant Dilley Editor in Chief: Timothy Dalrymple Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
- Jul 1, 20221h 5m
Bonus Episode: A Conversation with Tim Keller
Bonus Episode: A Conversation With Tim Keller Mike Cosper sits down with Tim Keller for reflections on leadership, the troubles with networks, and the essential need for communion with God. Tim Keller moved to New York City in 1989 to plant Redeemer Presbyterian Church. In the three decades since, he’s become one of the most influential voices in American evangelicalism. Several of his books have become bestsellers. City to City, the church planting network he co-founded, has planted more than 800 churches. He also co-founded The Gospel Coalition (TGC), an alliance of pastors and theologians with a shared theological vision. Today, TGC hosts events around the world, draws thousands to its national conferences, and publishes resources online that serve millions of readers, viewers, and listeners. In this conversation, Keller reflects on the challenges of movements, denominations, and networks, as well as his connections with Mark Driscoll, both at the Spanish River Church Network and in The Gospel Coalition. He talks about the limits of institutions, as well as the limits of accountability, and how the only reliable way to guard your heart in ministry is a wholehearted commitment to the pursuit of God in prayer. This conversation was recorded in early May, 2022. “The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Producer: Erik Petrik Producer, Writer, Host, and Mix Engineer: Mike Cosper Editor: TJ Hester Associate Producers: Joy Beth Smith and Azurae Phelps Music and Sound Design: Kate Siefker Graphic Design: Bryan Todd Social Media: Kate Lucky Editor in Chief: Timothy Dalrymple Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
- Jun 17, 202256 min
Bonus Episode: Everything is Still Falling Apart
Building an institution on celebrity power, charisma, and a spirit of grandiosity attracts a lot of people, money and a certain kind of cache for everyone involved. It helps them all to feel like they're part of something that's big — a movement providing a sense of meaning and purpose. But too often, these movements crumble, and those inside are crushed by the process. It's a pattern that extends far beyond Mars Hill, into the realm of politics, academia, media, and more. In this bonus episode of The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, host Mike Cosper speaks to Yuval Levin and Roger Berkowitz about the connections between the failure of our cultural institutions and the phenomena of rootlessness and loneliness, exploring how these related phenomena create the preconditions for charismatic leaders and corruption, He also talks to Russell Moore about what change looks like in the ruins, starting small, and the power of remembering our death. “The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Producer: Erik Petrik Producer, Writer, Host and Mix Engineer: Mike Cosper Editor: TJ Hester Associate Producers: Joy Beth Smith and Azurae Phelps Music and Sound Design: Kate Siefker Graphic Design: Bryan Todd Social Media: Kate Lucky Editor in Chief: Timothy Dalrymple Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
- May 6, 202244 min
Bonus Episode: Paint the Beauty We Split
Mars Hill’s music grew out of the same counter-cultural ethos that defined the rest of its ministry. Most of the church’s founding members thought Christian contemporary music was too saccharine and polished for their tastes, and what evolved at Mars Hill reflected the gritty and dark sounds of the city around them. But like many other facets of the Mars Hill story, there was much behind the music. Often selected for their charisma and talent, Mars Hill bands found that few cared about the condition of their souls or the posture of their spirits. Chad Gardner became a worship leader later in the church’s history, having grown up listening to the church’s music. His eventual decision to leave would mean sacrificing community and intellectual property rights over his band’s contributions to the ministry. Some band members, damaged by various spiritual abuses, would leave the faith altogether. In this bonus episode of The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, host Mike Cosper sits down with Chad Gardner, worship leader at Mars Hill, to hear the hard and beautiful stories of the music that defined the community. Peek backstage for a glimpse of what worship leadership meant in this alternative church culture, and hear stories behind some of Kings Kaleidoscope’s albums. Finally, find out why Chad told us, “I never wanted to do a duet with Mark.” “The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Producer: Erik Petrik Producer, Writer, Editor, Host, and Mix Engineer: Mike Cosper Associate Producers: Joy Beth Smith and Azurae Phelps Music and Sound Design: Kate Siefker Graphic Design: Bryan Todd Social Media: Kate Lucky Editorial Consultant: Andrea Palpant Dilley Editor in Chief: Timothy Dalrymple Theme Song: “Sticks and Stones” Kings Kaleidoscope Additional Music: Brad Currah, Red Letter, Team Strike Force, The Sing Team, Citizens, and Kings Kaleidoscope Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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About The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill
Hosted by Mike Cosper, this podcast takes you inside the story of Mars Hill Church in Seattle – from its founding as part of one of the largest church planting movements in American history to its very public dissolution—and the aftermath that followed. You’ll hear from people who lived this story, experiencing the triumphs and losses of Mars Hill, knowing it as both an amazing, life-transforming work of God and as a dangerous, abusive environment. The issues that plague Mars Hill and its founder, Mark Driscoll — dangers like money, celebrity, youth, scandal, and power—aren’t unique, and only by looking closely at what happened in Seattle will we be able to see ourselves.
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