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So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast: Daily Summaries Delivered
by FIRE
So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast takes an uncensored look at the world of free expression through the law, philosophy, and stories that define your right to free speech. Hosted by FIRE's Nico Perrino.
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The most recent episodes — sign up to get AI-powered summaries of each one.
- Yesterday59 min
Ep. 278: The Trump admin wants to change how scientific research is funded w/ Catharine Young, Evan Morris, and Ryne Weiss
In May 2026, the Office of Management and Budget proposed sweeping changes to how the federal government administers billions of dollars in federal research grants. That funding fuels scientific discovery, medical breakthroughs, and technological innovation. The proposal was open for public comment for 45 days and drew more than half a million responses. Supporters of the proposal argue that it will prevent waste, fraud, and abuse in federal spending. Critics contend that the proposal will politicize research funding by giving executive branch political appointees greater influence over which research projects receive federal support. Joining us to break down the OMB proposal and what it could mean for the future of research are: Evan Morris, professor of radiology and biomedical imaging and of biomedical engineering at Yale Catharine Young, senior fellow at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health Ryne Weiss, director of research here at FIRE Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 02:57 What's in the OMB proposal? 08:57 Research grant "kill switches" and their consequences 17:17 Limits on foreign research partnerships and professional activities 21:29 The importance of federal funding to medical research 23:23 Are pharmaceutical companies the "boogeymen"? 25:13 The gold standard of scientific research 26:22 The "replication crisis" 31:16 Open science and peer review 40:37 Bias in research funding decisions 44:06 Should science be shielded from politics? 49:04 Has research always been political? 53:14 How politicization could change scientific research 58:59 Outro Enjoy listening to the podcast? Donate to FIRE today and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a FIRE Member through a donation to FIRE at fire.org and would like access to Substack's paid subscriber podcast feed, please email sotospeak@fire.org.
- 2 weeks ago1h 14m
Ep. 277: Ada Palmer on the history of censorship from the Renaissance to AI
Censorship is often associated with authoritarian governments. But throughout history, efforts to control ideas have taken many different forms — and they haven't always come from the state. In this episode, Nico sits down with University of Chicago professor Ada Palmer to explore the history of censorship from the Renaissance to the present day. They discuss what motivates censorship, why it evolves alongside new communication technologies, how effective it has been throughout history, and what historical patterns can teach us about today's free speech debates. Ada Palmer is a professor of early modern European history at the University of Chicago and the author of Inventing the Renaissance: Myths of a Golden Age. She is also an acclaimed science fiction and fantasy author, composer, singer, and expert on anime and Japanese popular culture. Visit her website to read her blog and explore her other projects. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 01:29 Palmer's interest in censorship 03:13 Renaissance censorship 13:15 The Inquisition and Jansenism 22:50 The blurry line between state and private censorship 31:35 Fear and self-censorship 35:12 Does America hide its censorship efforts? 38:45 The case of Giovanni Pico della Mirandola 43:50 Will AI change censorship? 53:36 Censorship will always be with us 01:06:47 Are you a free speech absolutist? 01:13:46 Outro Enjoy listening to the podcast? Donate to FIRE today and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a FIRE Member through a donation to FIRE at fire.org and would like access to Substack's paid subscriber podcast feed, please email sotospeak@fire.org.
- 4 weeks ago59 min
Ep. 276: Book banning's trial of the century w/ Anthony Aycock
Over the past five years, book bans and book challenges have become a major flashpoint in American politics. School boards, parents, librarians, and lawmakers are fighting over what students should—and shouldn't—have access to on library shelves. Supporters of library restrictions say they are protecting children. Opponents say they are censoring ideas. But this debate isn't new. In the 1970s, America saw a similar surge in book challenges. One local dispute in Long Island, New York, made its way to the U.S. Supreme Court and became the only school-library book-removal case the Court has ever decided. That case was Island Trees School District v. Pico, better known simply as Pico. In this episode, we're joined by Anthony Aycock, legislative library director at the North Carolina General Assembly and the author of Just Plain Filthy: The Story Behind Book Banning's Trial of the Century. His book tells the story behind Pico, including the school board that removed the books from its libraries, the students who fought back, and the Supreme Court justices who delivered a fractured ruling that left some of the case's most important constitutional questions unresolved. Don't miss the free speech event of the year! Get your tickets and learn more about our Soapbox Conference at soapbox.fire.org. The early bird discount ends July 4. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 03:02 How Anthony became a librarian 05:08 What inspired Anthony's book? 07:33 The origins of Island Trees School District v. Pico 13:25 The Miller test for obscenity 14:43 Steven Pico and the road to the Supreme Court 18:15 The local reaction to Pico 20:17 If libraries choose what comes in, why can't they choose what goes out? 20:51 How librarians build a collection 26:05 When and why books leave library shelves 26:52 The Supreme Court's plurality opinion 30:08 Why Pico still matters: the Llano County case 35:41 Libraries, viewpoint diversity, and public access 38:24 When is censorship justified? 39:55 Should parents decide what everyone can read? 51:01 Stress test: Should Hitler's Mein Kampf be available in libraries? 54:05 How librarians feel about literary censorship today 57:57 Outro Enjoy listening to the podcast? Donate to FIRE today and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a FIRE Member through a donation to FIRE at fire.org and would like access to Substack's paid subscriber podcast feed, please email sotospeak@fire.org.
- Jun 17, 202642 min
Ep. 275: Stress-testing the limits of the First Amendment w/ Chaz Stevens
Debates over religious freedom have shaped American life for centuries. From Quakers facing persecution in colonial America to The Crucible to South Park, fights over religious expression have repeatedly tested the country's commitment to free speech and religious liberty. At the heart of these debates are a few difficult questions: Does the Constitution protect only popular beliefs, or all of them? If the government opens the door for one form of religious expression, does it have to allow every form? And if not, where does the Constitution draw the line? Few people have tested those questions more directly than Chaz Stevens. Stevens is the founder of the Church of Satanology and a longtime activist who uses satire, publicity stunts, and litigation to challenge what he sees as hypocrisy in how governments apply First Amendment protections. In this episode, Chaz joins us to talk about those battles, the philosophy behind his activism, and what he's learned from years of pushing the boundaries of the First Amendment. Follow Chaz on Substack here. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 02:26 What is Satanology? 04:15 Using malicious compliance to defend viewpoint neutrality 07:14 Pushing the boundaries of religious freedom protections 10:12 The First Amendment right to petition the government 11:20 Fighting state-mandated religious displays 15:37 Why Chaz puts Festivus poles in state capitols 19:59 Ron DeSantis, school libraries, and book ban controversies 23:44 Suing the government without a lawyer (pro se litigation) 30:18 Chaz's lawsuit against Rep. Chip LaMarca and Lindke v. Freed 34:48 How Chaz's activism started 35:54 The Consentivius tour and the Epstein files 38:55 What is Chaz's endgame? 41:27 Outro Enjoy listening to the podcast? Donate to FIRE today and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a FIRE Member through a donation to FIRE at fire.org and would like access to Substack's paid subscriber podcast feed, please email sotospeak@fire.org.
- Jun 10, 202659 min
Ep. 274: Financial censorship: how banks silence speech w/ Rainey Reitman
What is financial censorship? Rainey Reitman joins the show to discuss what happens when people are denied access to financial services because of their lawful speech and conduct. Reitman is the author of Transaction Denied: Big Finance's Power to Punish Speech, which examines the role financial companies like Visa, Chase, and PayPal play in policing speech and silencing speakers. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 02:29 Ben Reitman: Rainey's great-grandfather and free speech activist 05:42 How Rainey joined the fight for internet freedom 08:19 Chelsea Manning, whistleblowers, and the WikiLeaks banking blockade 16:11 The National Committee for Religious Freedom's fight with Chase Bank 19:10 NRA v. Vullo: The Supreme Court case on indirect government censorship 21:24 The Wolfsberg Group and global banking institutions 23:51 What is a "politically exposed person"? 25:52 Reputational risk management 27:40 Trump's 2025 executive order on debanking 29:45 Sanctions, terrorism screening, and the impact on Muslim communities 33:04 Why banks are so afraid of sanctions violations 34:10 Can you fight back after being debanked? 35:32 Can the private sector censor? 37:50 Operation Choke Point, cannabis, and crypto 47:25 Why are banks policing porn and adult content? 54:11 Solutions to debanking: incentives, crypto, and cash 59:15 Outro Enjoy listening to the podcast? Donate to FIRE today and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a FIRE Member through a donation to FIRE at fire.org and would like access to Substack's paid subscriber podcast feed, please email sotospeak@fire.org.
- May 27, 20261h 15m
Ep. 273: Debating Super PACs and campaign finance w/ Larry Lessig and Paul Sherman
In 2010, two landmark decisions transformed American campaign finance law. The first was Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission. The second was SpeechNow.org v. FEC. Together, these cases cleared the way for corporations and so-called Super PACs to raise and spend unlimited sums of money in elections. What followed was a new era in American politics where individuals, corporations, and industries increasingly spent more and more money to influence campaigns and public opinion. To debate the constitutional, political, and historical questions surrounding money in politics, we are joined by Larry Lessig and Paul Sherman. Lessig is a Harvard Law professor and the founder of Equal Citizens, one of the country's leading advocates for campaign finance reform. Sherman is a senior attorney at the Institute for Justice who served as co-counsel in SpeechNow.org. Read Larry's paper "If Roe, then Buckley" here. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 02:43 How Larry and Paul became interested in political speech and campaign finance 05:33 Citizens United, political speech, and quid pro quo corruption 18:34 What was the SpeechNow case? 32:31 Elon Musk and billionaire influence in the 2024 election 49:06 History of campaign finance regulation 51:26 First Amendment originalism, Federalist 52, and Federalist 57 01:07:07 Does money actually influence election outcomes? 01:14:20 Outro Enjoy listening to the podcast? Donate to FIRE today and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a FIRE Member through a donation to FIRE at fire.org and would like access to Substack's paid subscriber podcast feed, please email sotospeak@fire.org.
- May 15, 20261h 2m
Ep. 272: FIRE Monthly Member Webinar - May 2026
Shouting down speakers, UCLA free speech, heckling, AI, doxxing, cancel culture, and more! Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 02:40 Get your tickets to Soapbox now! 06:30 Congratulations to Will on 20 years at FIRE 07:31 How is FIRE responding to shouting down speakers? 11:33 Will FIRE include viewpoint diversity in our College Free Speech Rankings? 13:48 What is FIRE's response to UCLA Law students protesting a DHS speaker? 17:07 NYU's commencement speaker Jonathan Haidt 21:20 Is walking out on a controversial speaker protected free speech? 23:28 Is FIRE involved in Texas State University professor Tom Alter's case? 25:50 What is the scholar to attorney ratio at FIRE? 27:47 Has cancel culture on college campuses changed since Trump 2.0? 32:00 What is FIRE's stance on doxxing? 37:02 FIRE volunteer opportunities 37:33 Can the government regulate AI? 42:01 Is talk therapy speech or medical treatment? (Chiles v. Salazar) 46:02 What are the most pressing threats to online expression? 51:30 Special thanks to the Middlebury College Democrats and Republicans 53:45 What are the most challenging aspects of FIRE's work with technology and free speech? 57:10 Does accepting government money protect or restrict speech? 01:00:25 Is FIRE a reactive organization and what solutions do we offer? 01:01:41 Outro Joining us: Nico Perrino, executive vice president Alisha Glennon, chief operating officer Greg Lukianoff, president & chief executive officer Will Creeley, legal director Become a paid subscriber today to receive invitations to future live webinars. If you became a FIRE Member through a donation to FIRE at fire.org and would like access to Substack's paid subscriber podcast feed, please email sotospeak@fire.org. If you already are a paid subscriber and would like to listen to this episode via Apple Podcasts, click on the "Apple Podcasts" icon at the top right of this page!
- Apr 30, 20261h 3m
Ep. 271: Minecraft, censorship, and threats to press freedom with Clayton Weimers
Editorial note: This conversation was recorded on Friday, April 24, the day before the White House Correspondents' Dinner. Both Nico and Clayton attended the event, where a gunman breached security and opened fire before being apprehended. No one was seriously injured, but the incident serves as a reminder of the threats reporters can face in the course of their work. Since we recorded the conversation before the shooting, Nico and Clayton do not address it, but the incident underscores the stakes of their discussion. — In 2020, Reporters Without Borders launched the Uncensored Library, a virtual archive housed inside Minecraft, the world's most popular computer game. It preserves the work of journalists who have faced censorship, imprisonment, exile, or even death. In countries where their reporting is banned, Minecraft itself is not, making the library a digital sanctuary for suppressed journalism that millions can still access. In March 2026, the project added a United States wing, reminding Americans that subtler, less direct threats to a free press happen everywhere – even at home. With today's release of the 2026 World Press Freedom Index and World Press Freedom Day approaching on May 3, we're unpacking the state of press freedom with Clayton Weimers, the executive director of Reporters Without Borders USA. Download The Uncensored Library here. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 04:41 The state of press freedom in the United States 10:51 Trump administration's threats to press freedom 14:16 Patel v. The Atlantic and actual malice 22:55 Who is to blame for distrust in media? 27:58 Viewpoint diversity in the newsroom 32:15 The modern media ecosystem 40:27 What is RSF? 47:00 Freelance and independent journalism 49:11 Clayton's background and more on Reporters Without Borders 51:25 Inside the Uncensored Library 01:01:59 Outro Enjoy listening to the podcast? Donate to FIRE today and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a FIRE Member through a donation to FIRE at thefire.org and would like access to Substack's paid subscriber podcast feed, please email sotospeak@fire.org.
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About So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast
So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast takes an uncensored look at the world of free expression through the law, philosophy, and stories that define your right to free speech. Hosted by FIRE's Nico Perrino.
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