JRR Tolkien, George RR Martin, and writing morally dubious characters

In this episode Sridhar and I discuss the upcoming Amazon show, Rings of Power, and the prequel to Game of Thrones - House of the Dragon. The discussion turns to the variant means by which Tolkien and Martin approach morally dubious characters like Gollum, or the Lannisters. Both of us are unrepentent in our bias to Tolkien, and I frequently argue that much of what is said to constitute Martin' s genius is done better elsewhere, and frequently with much greater nuance. So, if you're a Martin fan, you will probably find a lot here to argue with.