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Grow Your Camp: Daily Summaries Delivered
by Mark P. Fisher & Carl Lefever
Welcome to the Grow Your Camp Podcast: 'Cause You Can't Minister to Empty BedsWhere we share stories and systems to help camps grow.Hosts:Mark P. Fisher, of Inspiring GrowthCarl Lefever, of Improve & GrowOverview:Most camp directors didn't sign up to be marketers. They signed up because they know what happens to a kid who spends a week away from everything — and they wanted to be part of it. But empty beds are a real problem, and figuring out how to fill them, fund the mission, and still lead well is work nobody really prepared you for.The Grow Your Camp Podcast exists for that director. Every episode opens with one tactic you can use this week — then goes deeper with a real camp leader who's already solved the problem you're sitting with. Real numbers. Real stories. The systems behind the growth.This is what it sounds like when the mission gets to grow.Key Themes:Filling the Calendar: Strategies and real-world examples of how retreat and camp leaders increase bookings and reduce seasonal gaps. Topics might include: lead generation systems, improving inquiry response times, pricing strategy, market positioning, capacity management, and off-season marketing approaches.Marketing that Feels Like Ministry: How faith-driven leaders approach marketing as an extension of their mission rather than a distraction from it. Topics might include: values-based storytelling, ethical persuasion, branding that builds trust, and aligning marketing messages. Digital Growth Systems: Modern tools and digital marketing tactics that consistently drive visibility, inquiries, and revenue for retreats and camps. Topics might include: websites that convert, CRM and automation, SEO and Google Ads, social media advertising, online reviews, and emerging technologies like AI.Stories of Growth: Candid conversations with leaders about their challenges, breakthroughs, and the turning points that sparked momentum. Topics might include: turning around a struggling retreat season, launching new programs, rebuilding after crisis, or scaling operations while staying mission-aligned.Leading for Growth: How leadership mindset, team culture, and operational systems create the foundation for sustainable growth. Topics might include: team alignment, delegation, budgeting and stewardship, guest experience excellence, and building systems that support long-term ministry impact.Episodes are typical 30-45 minutes in length, content is fun, engaging and practical. We bring on reputable guests that work in or on camp and always include a quick camp marketing tip at the top of each episode.Have a specific question you'd like us to cover? Click here to record a question and submit to our team.
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- 1 weeks ago1h 2m
The Real Reason Guests Rebook Your Camp
Refreshing Mountain has doubled revenue over the last decade while maintaining a strong focus on guest relationships and retention. In this episode, Administrative Director Justin Harnish shares the principles that helped the camp grow without losing the culture that built its reputation.Mark opens with a personal dedication to his mother’s 85th birthday and reflects on the people and experiences that shape camp leaders over time.Carl’s quick marketing tip explains why camps should stop sending every audience to the same homepage and how dedicated landing pages can improve conversions and lead generation.Justin then shares his personal camp story and how a formative camp experience shaped both his faith and belief in the long-term power of camp ministry.The conversation explores the two “Christian marketing principles” guiding Refreshing Mountain’s growth strategy. “Relationships Trump Everything” focuses on intentional guest care and personalized communication. “Return Business Is Worth Investing In” covers stewardship, rebooking strategy, guest retention, and why long-term relationships drive sustainable growth.Justin also shares lessons around guest feedback, occupancy planning, and how adding meeting room capacity became a major growth driver for year-round bookings.Keywordscamp marketing, camp retention, rebooking strategy, retreat center growth, guest experience, Christian camp leadership, landing pages for campsSound Bites“Relationships trump everything.”“Return business is a metric of integrity.”“The camps growing fastest online make visitors instantly feel: ‘This is exactly for me.’”“Happy returning guests are your best marketing.”HostsMark P. Fisher, Inspiring GrowthCarl Lefever, Improve & GrowGuestJustin Harnish, Refreshing MountainChapters00:05 Welcome & Episode Dedication02:38 Quick Camp Marketing Tip08:40 Justin's Camp Story09:29 The Power of Camp Experiences11:57 Refreshing Mountain Background14:51 Balancing Business and Ministry15:57 Org Challenges During Season of Growth22:52 Principles of Relationship-Driven Service24:53 Understanding Rebooking and Customer Feedback26:42 Enhancing Customer Experience Through Personalization30:09 The Importance of Rebooking and Customer Relationships37:13 Investing in Return Business45:20 The Impact of Meeting Room Capacity on Revenue45:57 Growth Partnership with Improve & Grow48:22 Making Way for Innovation at Camp53:22 Episode Debrief with Mark & Carl59:42 Closing Message & New Website FeaturesResourcesRefreshing Mountain Christian Marketing PrinciplesHave a question you'd like us to cover?Click here to record your question >Want Help Growing Your Camp?Schedule a Chat with Mark >Schedule a Chat with Carl >
- 2 weeks ago50 min
Ep 11 | How a Camp Went from Struggling to Waitlisted
Hume New England launched with a bold mission: bring the Hume camp experience to the Northeast and expand gospel impact in a region with fewer large Christian camp ministries. But early years brought operational setbacks, financial pressure, staffing challenges, and a camp model that didn’t fit the realities of East Coast churches.Before the interview, Mark shares a marketing tip about “riding the wave” instead of trying to create one. He explains how listening to church leaders led Hume New England to shorten camp sessions, lower pricing, and redesign programs around what churches and families actually needed—changes that ultimately helped fill more beds and increase ministry impact.Brian Mount then shares what it was like stepping into Hume New England as COO during COVID and leading a turnaround effort that required operational changes, measurable marketing systems, and a willingness to challenge long-standing assumptions. The conversation explores adapting camp structures for smaller churches, embracing guest groups, improving follow-up and marketing accountability, and overcoming internal resistance to change.The results were significant:Summer campers grew from roughly 620 to nearly 1,200Guest group revenue increased from about $500,000 to $1.4 millionCamp seasons moved from empty beds to waitlistsStaff morale and ministry momentum dramatically improvedBrian also shares encouragement for camp leaders navigating difficult seasons and explains why understanding your market may require rethinking long-held traditions without compromising mission.Keywordscamp growth, Christian camp leadership, camp marketing, guest group strategy, summer camp enrollment, camp profitability, church partnerships, Hume New England, ministry growth, leadership developmentSound Bites“Tradition is a tool. It’s not a trophy.”“We were doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results.”“Every empty bed is a potential missed opportunity for someone to hear the gospel.”“Start small and don’t be afraid to fail.”HostsMark P. Fisher, Inspiring GrowthCarl Lefever, Improve & GrowGuestBrian Mount, LifeShape InternationalChapters00:00 Introduction and Background00:56 Quick Camp Marketing Tip04:19 Brian Mount Introduction & Camp Story07:38 Leadership and Transformation at Hume09:13 Early Days at Hume15:51 Lessons Learned from Early Struggles17:39 Personal Journey and Influences19:09 The Decision to Partner for Growth23:51 Strategic Changes and Marketing Innovations29:36 Indicators of Positive Change34:00 Achieving Profitability and Impact40:06 Encouragement for Struggling Camp LeadersHave a question you'd like us to cover?Click here to record your question >If this episode was helpful:Follow / subscribe to the podcastShare it with another camp leader who could benefitWant Help Growing Your Camp?Schedule a Chat with Mark >Schedule a Chat with Carl >
- 2 weeks ago1h 3m
Ep 11 | How a Camp Went from Struggling to Waitlisted
Hume New England launched with a bold mission: bring the Hume camp experience to the Northeast and expand gospel impact in a region with fewer large Christian camp ministries. But early years brought operational setbacks, financial pressure, staffing challenges, and a camp model that didn’t fit the realities of East Coast churches.Before the interview, Mark shares a marketing tip about “riding the wave” instead of trying to create one. He explains how listening to church leaders led Hume New England to shorten camp sessions, lower pricing, and redesign programs around what churches and families actually needed—changes that ultimately helped fill more beds and increase ministry impact.Brian Mount then shares what it was like stepping into Hume New England as COO during COVID and leading a turnaround effort that required operational changes, measurable marketing systems, and a willingness to challenge long-standing assumptions. The conversation explores adapting camp structures for smaller churches, embracing guest groups, improving follow-up and marketing accountability, and overcoming internal resistance to change.The results were significant:Summer campers grew from roughly 620 to nearly 1,200Guest group revenue increased from about $500,000 to $1.4 millionCamp seasons moved from empty beds to waitlistsStaff morale and ministry momentum dramatically improvedBrian also shares encouragement for camp leaders navigating difficult seasons and explains why understanding your market may require rethinking long-held traditions without compromising mission.Keywordscamp growth, Christian camp leadership, camp marketing, guest group strategy, summer camp enrollment, camp profitability, church partnerships, Hume New England, ministry growth, leadership developmentSound Bites“Tradition is a tool. It’s not a trophy.”“We were doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results.”“Every empty bed is a potential missed opportunity for someone to hear the gospel.”“Start small and don’t be afraid to fail.”HostsMark P. Fisher, Inspiring GrowthCarl Lefever, Improve & GrowGuestBrian Mount, LifeShape InternationalChapters00:00 Introduction and Background00:56 Quick Camp Marketing Tip04:19 Brian Mount Introduction & Camp Story07:38 Leadership and Transformation at Hume09:13 Early Days at Hume15:51 Lessons Learned from Early Struggles17:39 Personal Journey and Influences19:09 The Decision to Partner for Growth23:51 Strategic Changes and Marketing Innovations29:36 Indicators of Positive Change34:00 Achieving Profitability and Impact40:06 Encouragement for Struggling Camp LeadersHave a question you'd like us to cover?Click here to record your question >If this episode was helpful:Follow / subscribe to the podcastShare it with another camp leader who could benefitWant Help Growing Your Camp?Schedule a Chat with Mark >Schedule a Chat with Carl >
- 3 weeks ago1h 30m
Ep 10 | The Camp Messaging Problem: Why Clarity Beats Cleverness
In this episode Mark opens with a tribute to one of his earliest camp mentors, Neil Fichthorn, the longtime executive director at Sandy Cove. Mark shares the leadership lessons Neil taught him — including the phrase that became foundational to this podcast: “You can’t minister to empty beds.”Carl’s quick camp marketing tip focuses on why your Google Business Profile may be quietly costing you bookings. He explains how local search results work, why reviews and categories matter, and how small profile updates can improve visibility for camps and retreat centers.The featured conversation is with Casey Fuerst, owner of Tic Tac Toe Marketing, who spent 18 years serving at a Lutheran camp in Nebraska before launching an agency focused on camps and nonprofits. Casey shares how camp shaped her personally and why she now helps camps communicate more clearly.The conversation explores one of the biggest problems Casey sees on camp websites: cluttered messaging. Using her “hall closet” analogy, she explains why trying to communicate everything at once confuses parents and retreat guests instead of helping them take action. The episode also covers Donald Miller’s StoryBrand framework and practical ways camps can simplify messaging, strengthen positioning, and improve marketing clarity.Keywordscamp marketing, camp website design, StoryBrand for camps, camp messaging, Christian camp marketingSound Bites“If everybody thinks their stuff belongs on the front page of the website, it becomes the junk drawer.”“Clear is kind. Clever is not.”“Most organizations are communicating at an eight when customers only need a two.”HostsMark P. Fisher, Inspiring GrowthCarl Lefever, Improve & GrowGuestCasey Fuerst, Tic Tac Toe MarketingChapters00:05 Introduction02:11 Today's Topic: Messaging & Clarity02:45 Quick Tip: Your Google Business Profile10:19 Messaging and Brand Positioning10:51 Meet Casey Fuerst12:31 Casey's Camp Story12:34 Personal Camp Stories and Experiences13:37 The Impact of Camp Experiences on Young Adults16:11 Marketing Insights for Camps16:20 The Hall Closet Problem19:28 The Importance of Clear Messaging22:01 The StoryBrand Framework22:11 The StoryBrand Framework in Action25:14 Real-World Examples of Messaging Success25:43 Finding Your One Message28:14 Navigating New Audiences and Digital Marketing28:56 Messaging Wins: Real Stories31:14 Celebrating Podcast Milestones and Future Directions38:56 Where Messaging Works Best42:45 Reaching New Audiences46:14 Wrap-Up & Celebrating Episode 10Have a question you'd like us to cover?Click here to record your question >If this episode was helpful:Follow / subscribe to the podcastShare it with another camp leader who could benefitWant Help Growing Your Camp?Schedule a Chat with Mark >Schedule a Chat with Carl >
- May 2, 202651 min
Ep 9 | How Systems & Culture Helped Emmanuel Pines Double Revenue
In this episode Mark shares a quick tip about rebooking—the most affordable and often overlooked path to growth. He explains why camps should aim for 60–80% rebooking, how it reflects guest experience, and why low rebooking points to a systems problem, not demand. He also outlines practical steps: know your numbers, pursue rebookings immediately, and protect dates.Carl then interviews Kathi and Bob Terrell, who share how Emanuel Pines Camp grew from roughly $900,000 to over $2 million in a few years. Their story begins with a plateau—limited growth, aging facilities, and reactive leadership—until they chose to pursue growth intentionally and bring in outside perspective.The biggest changes weren’t just marketing. They clarified positioning, improved first impressions, and focused on attracting the right audience. At the same time, they invested in their team with systems like the “I See You” recognition program and mission-driven onboarding to reinforce culture daily.They also introduced tools like the “Peace Card” to train staff in customer service and ensure every guest interaction reflects their mission. Along with ongoing facility improvements and a focus on removing distractions, these changes strengthened experience and loyalty.As demand increased, they adapted by adding staff, clarifying roles, and implementing virtual sales to improve responsiveness and conversion. The result was not just revenue growth, but stronger rebooking, healthier culture, and a more sustainable operation.Keywordscamp marketing strategy, rebooking systems, guest experience, team culture, retreat center growth, virtual sales, camp leadership, first impressions, staff developmentSound Bites“If you’re below 50% rebooking, something is broken.”“We started looking at camp through someone else’s eyes.”“We just became more intentional about everything.”“Nothing is more important than attending to guest needs.”HostsMark P. Fisher, Inspiring GrowthCarl Lefever, Improve & GrowGuestsKathi Terrell & Bob Terrell, Emmanuel Pines CampChapters 00:00 Episode Welcome 00:45 Quick Camp Marketing Tip: Rebooking 07:36 Bob and Kathy's Camp Journey 13:15 Understanding Emanuel Pines Camp 15:42 Challenges and Growth at Emanuel Pines 23:26 Key Changes Leading to Growth 23:56 Understanding Purposeful Growth Strategies 25:45 Cultivating Team Relationships and Culture 28:00 Mission-Driven Orientation and Guest Experience 30:20 The Peace Card: Enhancing Customer Service 35:24 Navigating Marriage and Leadership 40:20 Virtual Sales: A New Approach to Growth 46:30 Sustaining Marriage and Leadership in Camp Management 51:41 Podcast Intro Animation 16x9.mp4Have a question you'd like us to cover?Click here to record your question >If this episode was helpful:Follow / subscribe to the podcastShare it with another camp leader who could benefitWant Help Growing Your Camp?Schedule a Chat with Mark >Schedule a Chat with Carl >
- Apr 20, 202636 min
Ep 8 | From Spiky Bookings to Steady Growth
In this episode, Carl shares a practical marketing tip on turning past guests into your next booking engine—one of the fastest, most cost-effective ways to increase occupancy without chasing entirely new leads. By segmenting your audience and sending timely, relevant follow-up emails, camps can unlock a major source of repeat business that often goes underused.Then Mark interviews Bob Briscoe, Executive Director of Williamsburg Christian Retreat Center, brings a long-term perspective shaped by decades in camping—from his early experiences as a camper and trail guide to leading the organization through seasons of change. That background informs how he approaches leadership, balancing mission, relationships, and financial sustainability.The conversation walks through how the camp moved from inconsistent, “spiky” bookings to steady growth. Faced with unpredictable revenue and underperforming programs, Bob and his team made key decisions to simplify their offerings, focus on profitable guest groups, and invest in improving their marketing visibility. The result was fewer gaps, stronger midweek bookings, and significant growth in room nights—including doubling occupancy in one of their primary lodging facilities.This episode highlights what actually drives sustainable growth: clear decisions about what to stop doing, systems that support consistent marketing, and the willingness to seek outside help when internal capacity runs thin.Keywordscamp growth, retreat center marketing, camp occupancy, guest group strategy, camp revenue growth, digital marketing for camps, camp leadership, camp operations, retreat booking consistencySound Bites“Our bookings were spiky… full weekends and then crickets.”“The big change was answering the phone because it was ringing.”“You can’t afford the person you need—so get the right help another way.”“Be open to asking for help and being teachable.”HostsMark P. Fisher, Inspiring GrowthCarl Lefever, Improve & GrowGuestBob Briscoe, Williamsburg Christian Retreat CenterChapters00:00 Introduction and Podcast Format00:05 Marketing Strategies for Camps03:00 Bob Briscoe's Journey in Camp Leadership06:05 Understanding Williamsburg Christian Retreat Center09:12 Challenges and Changes in Camp Operations12:14 Navigating Program Adjustments and Guest Groups16:51 Innovative Retreat Solutions17:58 Recognizing the Need for External Help19:23 Evaluating Marketing Partnerships22:15 Navigating Budget Approvals24:20 Implementing Changes Post-COVID26:37 Tracking Revenue Growth28:24 Creative Strategies During Challenges29:24 Future Growth Focus31:07 Encouragement for Stuck Camp Directors35:33 Personal Insights on Marriage GrowthHave a question you'd like us to cover?Click here to record your question >If this episode was helpful:Follow / subscribe to the podcastShare it with another camp leader who could benefitWant Help Growing Your Camp?Schedule a Chat with Mark >Schedule a Chat with Carl >
- Apr 11, 20261h 10m
Ep 7 | How One Camp Used Better Follow-Up to 5X New Registrations
In this episode, Mark shares a practical tip on using virtual tours to help camps close more bookings by making it easier for planners to visualize and sell the experience internally.Then Carl and Mark sit down with Dusty Ledbetter, Digital Outreach Manager at Camp Cho-Yeh, to unpack a different approach to summer camp marketing—one focused less on driving traffic and more on converting interest into action.Dusty explains how his team built a system to capture leads, follow up quickly, and guide families through the decision process. Instead of relying on parents to register on their own, Camp Cho-Yeh uses targeted offers, structured landing pages, and a trained sales team to turn inquiries into conversations—and conversations into registrations.The result: 300+ new camper registrations from paid campaigns, with significantly higher conversion rates than traditional camp marketing funnels.This episode breaks down the full system—from Meta ads and messaging strategy to sales calls, follow-up processes, and lifetime value math. If your camp is generating interest but struggling to convert it into registrations, this provides a practical model to close that gap.Keywordscamp marketing, summer camp registration, lead generation, camp growth, Meta ads, Facebook ads, sales systems, conversion strategy, camp revenue, digital marketing for campsSound Bites“The ad’s job isn’t to sell—it’s to stop the scroll and get the click.”“70% of the conversion happens after the click.”“About 88% of our qualified leads now turn into registrations.”HostsMark P. Fisher, Inspiring GrowthCarl Lefever, Improve & GrowGuestDusty Ledbetter, Camp Cho-YehChapters00:00 Introduction02:00 Camp Marketing Tip: Virtual Tours That Close Deals05:30 Dusty’s Camp Story and Background10:00 The Problem with Traditional Camp Marketing Funnels14:30 Why Traffic Alone Doesn’t Drive Registrations18:00 Building a Lead Capture System for Summer Camp22:00 The Role of Sales Calls in Camp Enrollment27:00 Landing Page Strategy and Lead Offers33:00 Meta Ads: Messaging, Creative, and Targeting40:00 Lead Follow-Up Systems That Convert44:00 Understanding Customer Acquisition Cost (CAC)48:00 Lifetime Value (LTV) and Smarter Budgeting52:00 Scaling Growth Through Testing and IterationResourcesCamp Cho-Yeh >Summer Camp Landing Page >Facebook Ad Library >Have a question you'd like us to cover?Click here to record your question >If this episode was helpful:Follow / subscribe to the podcastShare it with another camp leader who could benefitWant Help Growing Your Camp?Schedule a Chat with Mark >Schedule a Chat with Carl >
- Apr 3, 202640 min
Ep 6 | From Empty Beds to a Waiting List
In this episode, Carl shares a camp marketing tip on how answering unasked questions on your website can dramatically increase retreat inquiries. Then Mark sits down with John Schwieterman, Executive Director of Cross Oaks Camp and Retreat Center, to unpack how he transformed a struggling camp into a rapidly growing operation.John shares the real story behind that growth—from cold calling hundreds of churches with limited results to implementing a system that now generates consistent inbound leads and an 88% close rate. They walk through the practical changes that made the difference, including website improvements, digital marketing strategy, and the leadership shift required to stop doing everything alone.You’ll hear what actually worked, what didn’t, and how to think about growth as both an operational and strategic challenge. If you’re trying to fill more beds, increase bookings, or move your camp out of survival mode, this episode gives you a clear, real-world example of what that path can look like.Keywordscamp growth, retreat bookings, camp marketing, lead generation, website optimization, digital marketing, camp leadership, nonprofit growth, camp revenue, guest groupsKey TopicsWhy most camp websites fail to convert inquiriesThe shift from cold outreach to inbound lead generationWebsite structure and FAQ strategy for better conversionsUsing Google Ads and SEO to drive qualified leadsImproving close rates with better lead qualityThe operational challenges that come with growthLeadership mindset: when and how to ask for helpMeasuring ROI on marketing investmentsHostsMark P. Fisher, Inspiring GrowthCarl Lefever, Improve & GrowGuestJohn Schwieterman, Executive DirectorCross Oaks Camp and Retreat CenterChapters00:00 Introduction and Episode Overview02:00 Camp Marketing Tip: Answering Unasked Questions05:08 John’s Camp Story and Background08:48 Challenges Facing Camp Growth12:45 Early Growth Efforts and Cold Calling Strategy18:48 Realizing the Need for Help21:16 Investing in Marketing and Systems23:24 Website and Lead Generation Transformation27:46 Results: Higher Close Rates and Revenue Growth30:29 The Operational Reality of Growth31:54 Leadership Lessons and Asking for Help33:08 Advice for Executive Directors35:03 Understanding Marketing ROI39:26 Time Management and Scaling LeadershipResourcesCross Oaks Camp and Retreat Center >Google for Nonprofits >Grow Your Camp Podcast >Have a question you'd like us to cover?Click here to record your question >If this episode was helpful:Follow / subscribe to the podcastShare it with another camp leader who could benefitWant Help Growing Your Camp?Schedule a Chat with Mark >Schedule a Chat with Carl >
About Grow Your Camp
Welcome to the Grow Your Camp Podcast: 'Cause You Can't Minister to Empty BedsWhere we share stories and systems to help camps grow.Hosts:Mark P. Fisher, of Inspiring GrowthCarl Lefever, of Improve & GrowOverview:Most camp directors didn't sign up to be marketers. They signed up because they know what happens to a kid who spends a week away from everything — and they wanted to be part of it. But empty beds are a real problem, and figuring out how to fill them, fund the mission, and still lead well is work nobody really prepared you for.The Grow Your Camp Podcast exists for that director. Every episode opens with one tactic you can use this week — then goes deeper with a real camp leader who's already solved the problem you're sitting with. Real numbers. Real stories. The systems behind the growth.This is what it sounds like when the mission gets to grow.Key Themes:Filling the Calendar: Strategies and real-world examples of how retreat and camp leaders increase bookings and reduce seasonal gaps. Topics might include: lead generation systems, improving inquiry response times, pricing strategy, market positioning, capacity management, and off-season marketing approaches.Marketing that Feels Like Ministry: How faith-driven leaders approach marketing as an extension of their mission rather than a distraction from it. Topics might include: values-based storytelling, ethical persuasion, branding that builds trust, and aligning marketing messages. Digital Growth Systems: Modern tools and digital marketing tactics that consistently drive visibility, inquiries, and revenue for retreats and camps. Topics might include: websites that convert, CRM and automation, SEO and Google Ads, social media advertising, online reviews, and emerging technologies like AI.Stories of Growth: Candid conversations with leaders about their challenges, breakthroughs, and the turning points that sparked momentum. Topics might include: turning around a struggling retreat season, launching new programs, rebuilding after crisis, or scaling operations while staying mission-aligned.Leading for Growth: How leadership mindset, team culture, and operational systems create the foundation for sustainable growth. Topics might include: team alignment, delegation, budgeting and stewardship, guest experience excellence, and building systems that support long-term ministry impact.Episodes are typical 30-45 minutes in length, content is fun, engaging and practical. We bring on reputable guests that work in or on camp and always include a quick camp marketing tip at the top of each episode.Have a specific question you'd like us to cover? Click here to record a question and submit to our team.
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