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Draft Zero: a screenwriting podcast: Daily Summaries Delivered
by Chas Fisher and Stuart Willis
Two emerging screenwriters – Chas Fisher and Stuart Willis – try to work out what makes great screenplays work. Discovering what it takes by analysing what successful writers put on the page.
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- 5 days ago2h 23m
DZ-131: Negative Character Arcs vs Negative Feelings
Listen to learn how to control your audience’s perception of your character arcs. In our fourth entry into our series on character arcs, we explore both what makes an audience perceive a character arc to be “negative” AND separately what makes the audience feel negative about a character arc. The individual arc, as Chas puts it, is only one lever. We dive into BACKROOMS, IF I HAD LEGS I’D KICK YOU and ANATOMY OF A FALL, further developing craft tools we’ve looked at earlier in the series - repeated character beats, emotional events, operant conditioning - as well exploring newer ones in more depth, such as relationship questions and symbolism. And the tool we crystallise the most this episode is the relationship question — a sibling to plot, character, and thematic questions. Ask it and you often find the arc the film wants you to notice isn't the main character's at all. In ANATOMY OF A FALL the ostensible lead is Sandra, on trial for her husband's death — but the arc that is the most developed (and the most negative) most belongs to Daniel, the son, forced onto the trial stand to choose a truth. We also talk BLUE MOON, GOODFELLAS, SCARFACE, EMILY THE CRIMINAL, WOLF OF WALL STREET, REVENGE OF THE SITH, SAINT OMER, BLADE RUNNER 2049, APOLLO 13, and whether blood-splatter analysis still counts as evidence anywhere. As always: SPOILERS ABOUND and all copyright material used under fair use for educational purposes. LIKE THIS EPISODE? Watch and comment on YouTube. Send us feedback. Send us a voice message via Speakpipe! Thanks to our Patrons, especially Khrob, Theis, Sandra, Jesse, Randy, Paulo, Thomas, Jennifer, Malay, Alexandre & Natalie and Lily. → Read the transcript for this episode. ——— "There's a difference between a character arc being negative and an audience feeling negative about the arc." — Chas Fisher @ 00:02:33 ——— CHAPTERS 00:00:00 – Cold Open 00:00:27 – Negative Arc vs Negative Audience Feeling 00:03:18 – › Distinguishing character shift, world reward, and audience experience 00:09:58 – › Why these three films resist a classic tragedy template 00:10:03 – The Relationship Question as a Craft Tool 00:11:11 – BACKROOMS 00:16:56 – › Clark's steadfast refusal disguised as trying to change 00:21:14 – › Repeated role-play beat as evidence of change or relief 00:26:31 – › Symbolism of loops and liminal space as character state 00:34:22 – › Decoupling character change from audience emotional change 00:44:09 – › Mary's window metaphor and inherited trauma 00:50:02 – › How operant conditioning punishes both leads 00:54:11 – IF I HAD LEGS I'D KICK YOU 00:58:45 – › Spiral structure and the illusion of available choices 01:06:00 – › Agency versus repeated impossible choices 01:12:21 – › Scripted imagery of the hole as inescapable metaphor 01:16:01 – › Authenticity of experience versus stylized horror world-building 01:18:49 – › Climax as abandonment, baptism, and ambiguous reward 01:26:11 – › Supporting relationships mirroring the protagonist's decline 01:33:46 – ANATOMY OF A FALL 01:39:24 – › Six competing explanations and the choice Daniel must make 01:45:59 – › The marriage itself as the film's true negative arc 01:51:14 – › Sandra's steadfastness and refusal to manage perception 01:58:49 – › Daniel and Sandra's relationship fractured by testimony 02:09:34 – › Acquittal as subtraction rather than reward 02:16:21 – Key Learnings & Wrap Up 02:21:46 – Thanks to our Patreons! FILMS BACKROOMS (2026) — (w) Will Soodik (d) Kane Parsons IF I HAD LEGS I'D KICK YOU (2025) — (w) Mary Bronstein ANATOMY OF A FALL (2023) — (w) Arthur Harari, Justine Triet (d) Justine Triet SCRIPTS Study the script: ANATOMY OF A FALL (2023) — Arthur Harari, Justine Triet EPISODES IN THE CHARACTER ARCS SERIES DZ-128: What even is a Character Arc? DZ-129: Steadfast Character Arc
- 1 weeks ago1 min
Teaser: Negative Character Arcs
Teaser for our next episode: DZ-131. Please watch BACKROOMS, IF I HAD LEGS I'D KICK YOU, and ANATOMY OF A FALL.
- Sep 1, 20262h 32m
DZ-130: Positive Character Arcs
Listen to understand how to dramatize a character's internal change. Welcome to our third entry in our character arc series; and the first where we talk about characters that actually change. And positively, too. We deep dive into BARBIE, WIDOWS and ALL OF US STRANGERS to work out what makes an arc feel positive -- even if the film itself is heartbreaking. All three films are "positive arcs" that feel wildly different. We speculate whether that's due to the nature of the relationship questions, the use of additive/subtractive rewards; and whether it's do with the connection of the characters needs and their goals. We further crystalize two tools we've been kicking around: The relationship question — take a character question ("will she learn to connect?") and pose it as a relationship problem ("will these two grow closer or further apart?"). Additive vs subtractive rewards — We continue buildling on this idea from our Steadfast episodes. Does the story give the character something or take something away? And is that a good or a bad thing? And Mel brings up a third: Repeating a beat from a different angle so we can trace a character's gradual evolution. We also debate whether Barbie's void scene is a producer's note personified — a director going into the endless nothing to spell the themes out one more time. All this and more on DZ-130! As always: SPOILERS ABOUND and all copyright material used under fair use for educational purposes. LIKE THIS EPISODE? Watch and comment on YouTube. Send us feedback. Send us a voice message via Speakpipe! Thanks to our Patrons, especially Khrob, Theis, Sandra, Jesse, Randy, Paulo, Thomas, Jennifer, Malay, Alexandre & Natalie and Lily. → Read the transcript for this episode. ——— "A relationship question is taking what we think is an internal question about a character and defining it in terms of the relationship. Will Moana grow closer to their village coming back or will they'll grow further apart?" — Stu Willis @ 00:06:09 ——— CHAPTERS 00:00:00 – Cold Open 00:00:21 – Positive Character Arcs 00:04:47 – › Relationship questions as the key to dramatizing arcs 00:09:00 – Followup Questions 00:12:12 – Zero Context Insights 00:13:01 – BARBIE 00:17:16 – › The void scene with Barbie's creator 00:23:13 – › Immortality versus death as the real choice 00:27:02 – › Debating the lie the character believes 00:44:26 – › Gain versus loss framing the ending 00:52:34 – › Contrast and affinity 00:59:47 – WIDOWS 01:05:47 – › Establishing character patterns before the heist begins 01:09:37 – › Do the widows have values before the story starts 01:18:42 – › Skills and goals tightly tied to character growth 01:21:04 – › Alice's escalating value shift through the sugar daddy scene 01:25:04 – › Linda's grief scene and steadfast versus positive arcs 01:27:12 – › Veronica's arc through Harry's betrayal and revenge 01:39:33 – › Comparing ensemble arcs to OCEAN'S ELEVEN and THE TOWN 01:46:46 – › Relationship questions as emotional engine of ensemble films 01:49:36 – ALL OF US STRANGERS 01:55:38 – › Rebuffing Harry sets up the positive arc 02:02:15 – › Isolation to connectedness as the emotional throughline 02:07:24 – › Contrasting coming out scenes with mom and dad 02:11:26 – › The low point as emotional violence not distance 02:18:48 – › Dream logic and touch as physical arc tracking 02:23:20 – Key Learnings & Wrap Up 02:26:20 – › Additive versus subtractive rewards in character arcs 02:29:58 – › Patreon shoutouts and next episode preview FILMS BARBIE (2023) — (w) Noah Baumbach, Greta Gerwig (d) Greta Gerwig WIDOWS (2018) — (w) Gillian Flynn, Steve Mcqueen (d) Steve Mcqueen ALL OF US STRANGERS (2023) — (w) Andrew Haigh, Taichi Yamada (d) Andrew Haigh SCRIPTS Study the script: BARBIE (2023) — Noah Baumbach, Greta Gerwig Study the script: <a href="https://www.scriptslug.com/
- Aug 27, 20261 min
Teaser: Positive Character Arcs
Teaser for our next episode: DZ-130. Please watch BARBIE, WIDOWS, and ALL OF US STRANGERS so you can learn about positive character arcs.
- Jul 31, 20262h 36m
DZ-129: Steadfast Character Arcs - Agents of Change
Listen to learn how to move an audience with a character who never changes. Do characters need to change for you to have a satisfying story? That's a question we've been asking since, like, episode five of this podcast. And we're finally talking about them - whatever you call 'em: steadfast, resilent, or flat arcs. To that end, we breakdown MOANA, APOLLO 13, and THE DRESSMAKER to work out what carries a story when a character arc doesn't. If your protagonist isn't going to change, the drama has to come from what they do to everyone else. We develop some tools that we reckon carry a steadfast story: doubt and wobble (a character with no doubt isn't steadfast, they're a psychopath) emotional events between characters additive rewards (something is gained) versus subtractive ones (something is taken away) - a distinction we've borrowed borrowed from operant conditioning; and how that difference changes the emotional tone of an ending. The subtractive reward is why a happy ending can still feel like loss... and it's the thing we reckon that'll matter most when we get to negative arcs. Chas, Mel and Stu also wibble-wobble over WILLOW, TAKEN, FERRIS BUELLER'S DAY OFF, THE MARTIAN, PROJECT HAIL MARY, THE GREY, ALL IS LOST, STAR WARS (as always), GREY GARDENS, PRISCILLA, and how many tampons NASA sent to space. As always: SPOILERS ABOUND and all copyright material used under fair use for educational purposes. LIKE THIS EPISODE? Discuss with our Patrons on Patreon. Watch and comment on YouTube. Send us feedback. Thanks to our Patrons, especially Khrob, Theis, Sandra, Jesse, Randy, Paulo, Thomas, Jennifer, Malay, Alexandre & Natalie and Lily. → Read the transcript for this episode. ——— "If your characters are not going to arc, if they are going to remain steadfast, then creating multiple smaller emotional events is really important to keep the story dynamic." — Mel Killingsworth @ 02:32:01 ——— CHAPTERS 00:00:00 – Cold Open 00:00:18 – What Is a Steadfast Character Arc? 00:04:24 – › Character as habitual action and setting up payoff 00:05:56 – › Operant conditioning and additive versus subtractive rewards 00:09:14 – › Zero-context takeaways on steadfast emotional stakes 00:10:33 – The Questionnaire for Analysing Character Arcs 00:12:18 – MOANA 00:13:31 – › Credits and the hero's journey plot summary 00:16:12 – › The I Want song and being pulled versus pushed 00:20:14 – › Moana's steadfastness causes her own low point 00:22:47 – › Steadfast belief that changes others, not the self 00:25:57 – › Multiple challenge types needed to dramatize resilience 00:27:25 – › Maui's arc contrasted as genuine positive change 00:29:38 – › Skills and rewards versus true character transformation 00:36:22 – › Grandmother and father relationships deepen audience intimacy 00:41:15 – › Disney princess genre expectations for character arcs 00:45:27 – › Tracking when and whether Maui and Moana change 00:48:36 – › The reluctant ally pattern across MOANA, STAR WARS, WILLOW 00:52:10 – › Contrast, theme, and the audience's emotional event 00:53:08 – APOLLO 13 00:55:50 – › Plot summary and the docudrama's technical problem-solving 00:57:38 – › Riveting problem-solving without any character value change 01:00:56 – › Emotional events replace arcs in the Jack and Jim relationship 01:09:12 – › Emotional tension versus arc as a structural framework 01:14:42 – › Disaster movies compared across steadfast and positive arcs 01:16:23 – › Do any characters change their relationship to themselves? 01:20:02 – › Working the steadfast questionnaire against APOLLO 13 01:33:53 – THE DRESSMAKER 01:39:16 – › Debating Tilly's true objective in returning to Dungatar 01:44:51 – › Steadfastness as being the agent of change for others 01:48:37 – › Teddy's death punishes the belief that she isn't cursed 01:52:16 – › Subtractive reward and removal of burdens versus true change 01:57:00 – › GREY GARDENS as a parallel study in steadfast protection 02:02:18 – › Tilly's revenge tactic transforms the town around her 02:11:55 – › Fairy tale logic and heightened melodrama in the film 02:16:29 – › Debating whether Tilly is steadfast or an agent of ch
- Jun 28, 20261h 30m
DZ-128: What even is a Character Arc?
Listen to separate the three layers of an arc -- does the character change? How do they feel about it? And how is the audience positioned to feel about it? Stu, Chas and Mel finally begin their long-awaited journey into CHARACTER ARCS. In this "primer" episode, we try find some learnings and analytical lenses that we can then apply in future breakdowns. In this episode, we explore differences between a character learning something and a character fundamentally changing, how to dramatise that, and how the show teaches the audience to perceive that transformation (whether positively or negatively). Throughout the discussion, we skate over A NEW HOPE, BLUE MOON, BREAKING BAD, BETTER CALL SAUL, the French real-time thriller FULL TIME, A KNIGHT OF THE SEVEN KINGDOMS, THE GREEN KNIGHT, ALL OF US STRANGERS, PREDATOR BADLANDS, FIELD OF DREAMS, MEG 2, and Stu's receding hairline. Ultimately, this discussion synthesises into a series of questions to ask of a story and the main point-of-view character living through that story: Does the audience enter the story with an expectation that characters will change? How does the story teach the audience to expect characters to change or not? Do the characters change? Is it experiential change or internal value change? How is that dramatised? Is the character aware that they changed? How do they feel about that change? Does that matter? How does the story want the audience to feel about that change? If different to the character’s perception, how does the story pull that off? How does the story world punish or reward the change? What are the values explored by the arc? How does this relate to the theme? How is contrast vs affinity/unity portrayed through the characters’ journey? Order vs disorder vs inertia What is the emotional event created between the character and audience as a result of the journey? Does the character end up more intimate or distant from the audience? In upcoming episodes, we intend to apply these lenses to stories with STEADFAST/RESILIENT arcs, POSITIVE arcs, NEGATIVE arcs and - potentially - a “WTF is this?!” arc. Please check out our homework discussion on Patreon. And if you want to vote on the stories we're gonna breakdown, sign up! As always: SPOILERS ABOUND and all copyright material used under fair use for educational purposes. LIKE THIS EPISODE? Discuss with our Patrons on Patreon. Join the discussion on Reddit. Watch and comment on YouTube. Send us feedback. Thanks to our Patrons, especially Khrob, Theis, Sandra, Jesse, Randy, Paulo, Thomas, Jennifer, Malay, Alexandre & Natalie and Lily. → Read the transcript for this episode. ——— "Character arcs are really difficult to talk about because they're not just in isolation. Rarely is a film only about one character, right? So we're actually talking about how we harmonize other characters around them." — Stu Willis @ 00:12:16 ——— CHAPTERS 00:00:00 – Cold Open 00:00:17 – Character Arcs: A Primer on What We're Really Asking 00:03:13 – › Three layers of an arc: character, self-perception, audience 00:07:04 – › The four-quadrant map: change, no change, better, worse 00:10:15 – › Why calling it an arc is already a misnomer 00:13:35 – What We Each Want to Learn from This Series 00:19:56 – › Whether emotional authenticity is becoming more valuable than spectacle 00:23:37 – › Why stories let us safely inhabit experiences outside our own 00:30:04 – The Deep Question: Can Characters Actually Change? 00:35:49 – › Contrast and affinity as the design logic of transformation 00:41:40 – › The rock metaphor: external forces versus intrinsic change 00:46:43 – › Order, disorder, and inertia as the spectrum of arc types 00:50:29 – Three Layers of Judgment: Character, World, and Audience 00:56:45 – › How the filmmaker positions the audience relative to the character 01:00:01 – › Do audiences enter stories expecting change at all? 01:06:09 – › Mapping the inner journey against plot beats 01:09:28 – › Why low points exist to make the climax feel earned 01:12:09 – Key Learnings & Wrap Up 01:26:47 – Thanks to Our Patreons! FILMS</strong
- May 27, 20261h 51m
DZ-127: Secrets and Clues 2 - The Cost of Revelation
Listen to learn the emotional impact of revealing secrets vs discovering them. In this episode Stu, Chas and Mel apply the Landmark–Hidden–Secret framework (from DZ-126) across two very different genres: the thriller SIDE EFFECTS (2013) and the tragicomic pilot of SHRINKING. SIDE EFFECTS is a film of two genres. The first half plays as a drama about depression and over-medication; the second half is a 90s thriller. We talk about how every time Dr Jonathan Banks uncovers a new piece of information, it puts him in danger — and that danger motivates him to uncover more. In SHRINKING, we see a different use of the framework. "What are psychologists but detectives of the mind?" Rather than the cost of finding secrets, it's about the cost of sharing them. Chas also comes out of this with a paradigm he's been building toward (but we're keeping what that is secret until you listen!) And inevitably we go on some tangents: whether SIDE EFFECTS should even have been an erotic thriller! As always: SPOILERS ABOUND and all copyright material used under fair use for educational purposes. LIKE THIS EPISODE? Discuss with our Patrons on Patreon. Join the discussion on Reddit. Watch and comment on YouTube. Send us feedback. Thanks to our Patrons, especially Khrob, Theis, Sandra, Jesse, Randy, Paulo, Thomas, Jennifer, Malay, Alexandre and Lily. → Read the transcript for this episode. ——— "Every time Dr Jonathan Banks uncovers a new piece of information, it puts him in danger -- and that danger motivates him to uncover more." — Chas Fisher @ 00:26:04 ——— CHAPTERS 00:00:00 – Cold Open 00:00:16 – Intro: Secrets and Clues 2 - the Cost of Revelation 00:01:03 – Previously on Secrets and Clues (Recap of Part 1) 00:04:24 – Flashforward Insights 00:09:29 – SIDE EFFECTS 00:20:18 – › The First Half: Push and Misdirection 00:28:41 – › Genre Shift: Banks Becomes the Detective 00:48:06 – SHRINKING 01:00:02 – › The Inverted Paradigm: When Everyone Knows 01:07:47 – › The Cost of Sharing 01:22:02 – › Power Through Honest Acknowledgement 01:35:37 – The Key Tool Chas Learned 01:39:28 – Key Learnings & Wrap Up 01:50:48 – Many Thanks to our Patrons! FILMS SIDE EFFECTS (2013) — (w) Scott Z Burns (d) Steven Soderbergh SHOWS SHRINKING — (w) Brett Goldstein, Jason Segel, Bill Lawrence SCRIPTS Study the script: SIDE EFFECTS (2013) — Scott Z Burns LINKS Website: DIY & dragons: Landmark, Hidden, Secret Website: The Alexandrian » Advanced Node-Based Design Website: Ascii Dreams: The Quest for Quests (Part One) Website: Ascii Dreams: The Quest for Quests (Part Two) EPISODES IN THE SECRETS AND CLUES SERIES DZ-126: Secrets and Clues DZ-127: Secrets and Clues 2 - The Cost of Revelation RELATED EPISODES DZ-90: Setups & Payoffs in EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE ALL AT ONCE ——— More Draft Zero is brought to you by our awesome Patreons. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts, a rating on Spotify, or a review on Podch
- May 5, 20261h 28m
DZ-126: Secrets and Clues
Listen if you want to understand how hidden information drives character motivation and plot structure! “Getting information puts your character in danger. And danger rewards your character with information." — One of three ideas we steal from game design in this episode. In this two part series, we talk about how secrets, clues and hidden information motivate characters and may (or may not) help you plot from a character perspective. Part One (this episode) looks at WAKE UP DEAD MAN; while Part Two looks at SIDE EFFECTS, and the pilot episode of SHRINKING. The other two (related) ideas are: Landmark information (characters just have it), Secret (they know it's there, need to unlock it), and Hidden (invisible until they pay the cost) Narrative velocity — are characters pushed forward or are they pulled forward? To that end, in this episode Stu, Chas and Mel start with the murder mystery (ostensibly the easier deep-dive): Rian Johnson’s WAKE UP DEAD MAN. But this is a complex film made even more complex by being a dual-protagonist film. Uhuh. Benoit Blanc is pulled through the story by his need to solve the case; Father Judd pushed through, against his will, to prove his innocence. Breaking down how that plays out — and why it matters for the kind of escalation each character can sustain — is the heart of the episode. And inevitably we go on some tangents: pointers, plants, and underpinnings (from our Everything Everywhere All At Once episode) fair play in locked-room mysteries, Narrative POV (as always) and node-based plotting and what dungeon-crawl game design has to do with writing a web of clues. As always: SPOILERS ABOUND and all copyright material used under fair use for educational purposes. LIKE THIS EPISODE? Discuss with our Patrons on Patreon. Join the discussion on Reddit. Watch and comment on YouTube. Send us feedback. Thanks to our Patrons, especially Khrob, Theis, Sandra, Jesse, Randy, Paulo, Thomas, Jennifer, Malay, Alexandre and Lily. → Read the transcript for this episode. ——— "Information puts players in danger and danger rewards characters with information, right? That's kind of the loop with like thriller game design." — Stu Willis @ 00:05:40 ——— CHAPTERS 00:00:00 – Cold Open 00:00:18 – What do we mean by Secrets and Clues? 00:04:17 – › Landmark, hidden, and secret information defined 00:08:10 – › Narrative velocity as push and pull for characters 00:13:22 – WAKE UP DEAD MAN 00:17:56 – › Key learnings preview: push-pull and narrative velocity 00:32:33 – › Mapping character awareness of secrets through WAKE UP DEAD MAN 00:58:21 – › Distinguishing secrets, clues, and hidden information 01:13:17 – › Benoit Blanc's character arc and the choice of grace 01:22:50 – KEY LEARNINGS & WRAP UP 01:24:22 – › Character drives how secrets are hidden and revealed 01:25:34 – › Narrative velocity and escalating stakes reveal character FILMS WAKE UP DEAD MAN (2025) — (w) Rian Johnson SCRIPTS Study the script: WAKE UP DEAD MAN (2025) — Rian Johnson LINKS Read: DIY & dragons: Landmark, Hidden, Secret Read: The Alexandrian » Advanced Node-Based Design Read: Ascii Dreams: The Quest for Quests (Part 1) Read: Ascii Dreams: The Quest for Quests (Part 2) Read: Mel's KNIVES OUT: A Rose by Any Other Name Would Not Clue Us In EPISODES IN THE SECRETS AND CLUES SERIES DZ-126: Secrets and Clues <a href="ht
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Two emerging screenwriters – Chas Fisher and Stuart Willis – try to work out what makes great screenplays work. Discovering what it takes by analysing what successful writers put on the page.
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