The Talk

M's friend says things that really bother M. Racist and homophobic things. He wants to know how to talk to his good friend about the offensive stuff he says, but he doesn't really know how. We find some lessons in the story of Steven Hassan, a former Moonies cult member, and how he developed a way to get people out of cults. We share Steven's lessons with M to see if he can get through to his friend. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.