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Always Be Testing: Daily Summaries Delivered
by Tye DeGrange
Always Be Testing explores the experiments, insights, and growth stories shaping the future of affiliate and partner marketing in B2B SaaS. Hosted by industry veterans, the show dives deep into real-world lessons from the people driving measurable impact at companies like Google, HubSpot, Ramp, Webflow, G2, and beyond. Each episode uncovers what happens when today's most innovative marketers challenge assumptions, run smarter experiments, and build programs that scale revenue through meaningful partnerships. If you’re in affiliate, partnerships, or SaaS growth — this is your front-row seat to how the best do it (and what they’ve learned along the way).
Latest Episodes
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- 2 weeks ago37 min
CTV Measurement Unpacked: Incrementality, Attribution & Holdout Testing | Tom Rathbone
Tom Rathbone joins Tye DeGrange to break down the real challenges of measuring CTV — from probabilistic Nielsen-era methods to where the industry stands today. Tom shares how TVScientific approaches measurement, why holdout testing is still underutilized by most brands, and how to build a test media plan that actually generates signal. Plus: why single-touch attribution fails in a multi-channel world and what it takes to move from vanity metrics to a long-term growth strategy.
- 3 weeks ago39 min
Horse Lessons from Mom | Ginger DeGrange
For Mother's Day, Tye DeGrange hands the mic to his mom — Ginger DeGrange. Rodeo queen. Horse trainer. Summer camp founder. 36-year instructor who's taught 10,000+ students the art of horsemanship at Santa Rosa Junior College. This one's full of great stories: the OJ Simpson trail ride, a student who went on to dine with the Queen of England, competing at the Grand National, and the old reinsman who taught Ginger that quiet confidence beats loud energy every time. Plus real lessons on building confidence, earning trust, and leading with feel — on and off the horse.
- Apr 29, 202628 min
#121 Zero Platform: 10 Great Partners Beat 100 — The Future of Local Marketing | Adam Dewer, Soci.ai
Adam Dewer leads partnerships at Soci.ai — an AI-powered platform helping 800+ multi-location brands manage their local presence across social, listings, and reviews.In this episode, Tye and Adam get into the "zero platform" future of local marketing, where AI agents replace dashboards entirely — handling updates, review responses, and social posts through a simple SMS conversation with the business owner. They also dig into Adam's approach to building and measuring partnerships (he tracks just two numbers: net new revenue and expansion revenue) and why he'd take 10 incredible partners over 100 mediocre ones any day.What you'll learn:• Why "automagically" is the most dangerous word in AI marketing• How to identify your AI strength areas before trying to scale• Why agency partners are Adam's #1 channel play right now• The early signals that tell you a partner is going to scale• How to tee up a partner for success without making it transactional• What the "zero platform" future looks like for a local business ownerConnect with Adam: linkedin.com/in/adamdewer | soci.ai
- Apr 21, 202634 min
SaaS Class EP 1: AEO is the New SEO — How HubSpot & Webflow Are Winning AI-First Discovery | Nancy Harnett & Guy Yalif
The first episode of SaaS Class tackles one of the most pressing questions in B2B marketing: how do you win when your buyers are finding answers on ChatGPT and Perplexity instead of Google?Tye sits down with Nancy Harnett (Head of Affiliate & Offsite AEO at HubSpot) and Guy Yalif (Webflow, formerly CEO of Intellimize) to break down what's actually working in the race to become the most visible brand in AI search. Nancy reveals how HubSpot generated 200K+ AI citations in 6 months and became the #1 most visible CRM across AI search. Guy shares how Webflow appears in 67% of the AI answers they care about — more than any other CMS including WordPress.What you'll learn:Why AEO is a natural evolution of great SEO, not a replacementThe 4 pillars of AEO: Content, Technical, Authority & MeasurementWhy affiliate marketing is now the "new backlinks" — driving top and bottom-funnel AI impactHow HubSpot used Reddit to go from ~100 to 146K AI citations in 7 monthsContent depth and localization: what actually moves the needleHow to build a closed-loop measurement system to iterate fast
- Mar 24, 202630 min
90% of Media Buying Workflows Are Still Manual—Here’s What’s Broken | Lacie Thompson
In this episode of Always Be Testing, host Tye DeGrange sits down with Lacie Thompson, an experienced agency leader, affiliate and partner marketing expert, and former operator at brands like Expedia and Blue Nile. After successfully scaling and exiting her agency, Lacie is now building Media Pack—an AI-powered platform designed to modernize and streamline how brands buy media.The conversation explores Lacie’s journey across brand-side, agency, and startup environments, highlighting how real-world frustrations led her to build solutions rooted in efficiency and transparency. From the broken workflows of flat-fee media buying to the lack of standardization across the industry, she unpacks the core problems that still slow teams down—and how AI is now making it possible to rethink the entire system.Beyond product and tech, the episode dives into the mindset behind building and scaling—from making decisions beyond data, to taking risks before feeling “ready,” to focusing on what truly creates differentiation. It’s a grounded and insightful look at what it takes to build in today’s AI-driven landscape while staying anchored in real customer needs.
- Mar 10, 202632 min
#119 Why 70% of Affiliate Programs Fail Before They Launch — and How AI Can Fix That | Kyle White
Kyle White is the CEO & Founder of Refinery, an AI-powered affiliate technology solution. He brings a rare blend of experience across affiliate management (Overstock, Uber), product development, and data-driven experimentation. He previously built tools at Impact, led global affiliate/ambassador programs at Uber, and now focuses on making affiliate programs smarter, more automated, and more profitable using AI.In this conversation, Kyle breaks down how AI is transforming affiliate marketing, how brands can adopt product‑led growth principles, and why relevancy—not payouts—is the strongest signal in partner matchmaking. He shares lessons from scaling Uber’s Ambassador Program from a 7% to an 80% activation rate, what most brands get wrong about affiliate recruitment, and how to design tests that actually produce meaningful insights.The episode also covers trends shaping the future: the threat of AI search bypassing the affiliate channel, the rise of pay‑per‑performance TV & audio partners, and why the next era will require filtering through more noise to find true value. Kyle also shares personal stories—building a company with a newborn, being featured in South Park, speaking Russian from missionary service in the Baltics, and his love of film photography.
- Mar 3, 202641 min
#118 Why Most Marketing Teams Miss 95% of Real Buyers | Doug Bell
In this episode, I sit down with Doug Bell — Fractional CMO, former leader at Automation Anywhere, LeanData, and Searchmetrics, top‑40 Substack writer, and co-host of Cannonball GTM — to unpack why modern go‑to‑market playbooks are breaking… and what the next generation of GTM looks like in an AI‑driven world.We go deep into the new patterns shaping high‑growth companies — and the uncomfortable truths most teams don’t want to face.
- Feb 24, 202638 min
#117 3 Structural Shifts Are Breaking Traditional SEO | Jordan Koene
This episode explores the future of search and digital discoverability with an experienced SEO executive and growth advisor who has worked with high-growth marketplaces and SaaS companies. The conversation unpacks how the mechanics of online discovery are being reshaped by AI, shifting user behavior, and the declining reliability of traditional traffic channels. Together, we examine why visibility is no longer just a marketing function but a product and experience challenge — where trust, intent, and usefulness determine whether users discover and choose a product. The discussion also covers how teams should rethink SEO from a tactical ranking exercise into a strategic growth capability, what durable acquisition looks like today, and how organizations can adapt their playbooks to stay relevant as search continues to evolve.
About Always Be Testing
Always Be Testing explores the experiments, insights, and growth stories shaping the future of affiliate and partner marketing in B2B SaaS. Hosted by industry veterans, the show dives deep into real-world lessons from the people driving measurable impact at companies like Google, HubSpot, Ramp, Webflow, G2, and beyond. Each episode uncovers what happens when today's most innovative marketers challenge assumptions, run smarter experiments, and build programs that scale revenue through meaningful partnerships. If you’re in affiliate, partnerships, or SaaS growth — this is your front-row seat to how the best do it (and what they’ve learned along the way).
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