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Relationship Truth: Unfiltered is a place for people of faith to find real answers when it comes to destructive relationships. Leslie Vernick is the author of seven books, including the best-selling, ”The Emotionally Destructive Marriage.” She has dedicated her life to cutting through the religious confusion and teaching women to grow in their relationships: with God, with themselves, and with others.
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Taking Back Your Story: The Real Path to Wholeness After Emotional Abuse What if the thing keeping you from healing is not your abuser's refusal to change — but your belief that their apology is the price of admission to your own wholeness? In this deeply personal and powerful episode, Leslie pulls back the curtain on her own story of childhood emotional abuse and shares, with rare vulnerability, what the healing journey truly requires — not someday, not after the apology comes, but right now, exactly where you are. You will walk away with a clear-eyed understanding of the two most common detours that keep women stuck, three concrete steps to begin your own healing work, and the faith-rooted conviction that your story is not over and the ending still belongs to you. Key Takeaways Emotional Abuse Is Real, It Leaves Real Damage, and the Church Needs to Say So Emotional abuse does not require a raised fist to leave lasting wounds. Proverbs says reckless words pierce like a sword — and Leslie reminds us that is not metaphor, it is diagnosis. If you have been told you are too sensitive, that you just need to forgive and move on, or that what happened to you was not that bad, this episode speaks directly into that invalidation. What happened to you was real, it was sin, and you deserve to heal from it fully. The Two Detours That Will Keep You Stuck The first detour is spending your energy trying to fix or change your abuser. You cannot do someone else's healing work, and most of the time they are not even willing to admit the work exists. The second — and perhaps more quietly devastating — detour is waiting for an apology before you allow yourself to move forward. Leslie shares from her own experience of sending a vulnerable letter to her mother and receiving only more wounds in return. The question she had to sit with — and the question she now places in your hands — is this: do you need, with a capital N, the person who hurt you to repent before you are allowed to heal? When she finally answered no, something inside shifted. That shift is available to you too. Taking Responsibility for Your Healing Is Not the Same as Taking Blame This is perhaps the most important distinction in the entire episode, and Leslie returns to it more than once because it is so frequently misunderstood. You are never responsible for what was done to you. The person who abused you is one hundred percent responsible for their choices. But now, as an adult, you are one hundred percent responsible for what you do with what happened to you. Accepting that responsibility is not blame — it is stewardship. Proverbs 4:23 commands you to guard your heart above all else. That is your assignment, and no one else can do it for you. Owning your healing gives you back your agency and your power to decide how your story ends. Three Places to Put Your Energy Right Now Leslie outlines three concrete starting points for the healing journey. First, re-educate yourself — especially spiritually. If the Bible was used as a weapon in your home to enforce control, you may be carrying a distorted picture of what God actually says about submission, forgiveness, boundaries, and your own worth. Find out for yourself. Second, identify your own work to do, not your abuser's — what do you need to grieve, what lies do you need to release, what patterns are no longer serving the person God designed you to be? Third, expose and actively let go of the lies. Notice when you say I can't and ask yourself: who told me that? Try shifting I can't to I can try, or even I won't — and notice how that one word change hands your agency back to you. Healing Is a Process, Not a Destination — And You Do Not Have to Walk It Alone Wholeness does not mean you never feel pain again or never get triggered. It means you now know what to do when those things happen. It means you can speak in your own voice, hold your own values, and care for yourself without requiring someone else's permission or validation. Leslie also makes clear that this journey was not designed to be walked in isolation. You were wounded in relationship, and you heal in relationship — with God, with safe and wise community, and when needed, with a good trauma therapist or coach. Getting professional help for emotional wounds is not weakness. It is the same wisdom that sends you to a doctor when your body is not healing on its own. Personal Invitation If today's episode stirred something in you — if you recognized yourself in one of those detours, or if you are exhausted from focusing on everyone else and have not yet turned that care toward yourself — I want to offer you a place to begin. The Quickstart guide at the link below is a gentle, practical first step to help you get oriented on your healing journey. You do not have to have everything figur
Have you ever wondered whether staying in your marriage is what God truly requires of you — or whether that belief is actually a lie keeping you trapped? In this powerful episode, Leslie sits down with Charlene Quint, family law attorney, domestic abuse survivor, TEDx speaker, and founder of Abuse Care. Charlene brings a rare combination of courtroom experience, personal healing, and deep biblical grounding to one of the most urgent conversations women in destructive relationships need to hear. You will walk away with practical tools for leaving safely, a clearer understanding of what Scripture actually says about divorce, and the courage-building truth that God goes with his daughters into their promised land. Key Takeaways You Are Not Naive — These Men Are Skilled Actors Charlene opens with her own story: a CFO who did not see the signs during the love-bombing phase, who was coerced into signing a 28-page prenuptial agreement the day before her wedding, and who eventually left with nothing but a change of clothes in the trunk of her car. Her story is a profound reminder that education, intelligence, and faith do not protect a woman from a calculated abuser. The shame of asking "how did I miss this?" is one of the first lies that must be named and released. Naming It Correctly Changes Everything Just as a doctor who misdiagnoses bronchitis when the patient has lung cancer will prescribe medicine that cannot heal, a counselor or pastor who frames abuse as normal marital conflict will offer tools that cannot help. Charlene and Leslie make clear that naming a behavior as gaslighting, coercive control, or abuse is not an act of bitterness — it is an act of clarity that finally gives a woman permission to seek the right remedy. Traditional marriage counseling applied to an abusive relationship is, as Charlene puts it, like taking aspirin and expecting it to cure cancer. What the Bible Actually Says About Divorce One of the most important sections of this conversation walks through Deuteronomy, Malachi, and Matthew with careful, honest biblical scholarship. The long-repeated phrase "God hates divorce" is a mistranslation of Malachi 2, where God was actually condemning men who sent wives away without a certificate of divorce — abandoning women with no legal protection and no ability to remarry. Moses granted the certificate of divorce as a protection for women in a patriarchal culture. Jesus upheld that provision. God's heart, throughout all of Scripture, is consistently with the oppressed and against those who use power to violate others. What Abusers Will Do During the Divorce — Without Exception Charlene is direct: there is a predictable playbook, and every woman deserves to know it before she is blindsided. He will play the victim. He will pursue parental alienation and social alienation. He will lie about finances. He will drag out litigation. He will volunteer visibly at church to build his reputation. Practical wisdom here includes gathering financial records before leaving, getting an order of protection if applicable, making divorce documents extremely specific about dates and terms, and — critically — keeping a poker face about what matters most to you. The moment he knows what you love, he will use it as leverage. Healing Begins with Truth and Safe Community Charlene calls it the three Rs: Recognize the lies you have believed, Remove them, and Replace them with God's truth. Lies like "no one else will love me" or "if I just pray harder he will change" are the internal chains that keep women in destructive relationships long after the external danger is recognized. Surrounding yourself with safe, informed people — and not walking this road alone — is not optional. It is the path. And for church leaders who want to help, Charlene offers her BEARS framework: Believe her, Educate yourself, hold Abusers Accountable, Refer her to professionals, and Support her practically with housing, finances, court accompaniment, and presence. Personal Invitation If something in this episode stirred something in you — if you are beginning to wonder whether what you are living is truly normal, or if you have known for a long time and simply did not know your next step — you do not have to figure this out alone. Leslie has put together a free Quickstart guide to help you begin moving toward clarity, safety, and healing. https://leslievernick.com/guide You can also find Charlene Quint's workbook, Overcoming the Narcissist, Sociopath, Psychopath and Other Domestic Abusers, on Amazon. It is designed for support groups, Bible studies, and individual healing, and her 25-week faith-based support group through Abuse Care begins each spring. Visit abusecare.org to learn more. God's blessings follow his daughters. That is not a s
Show Notes Have you ever wondered whether your faith was actually keeping you trapped in something God never intended for you? For Jennifer Brantley, that question took 36 years and a shattering moment of clarity to finally answer. In this powerful episode, Leslie sits down with Jennifer — a speaker, author, and board-certified biblical counselor — who spent more than three decades in a marriage she never recognized as abusive, largely because legalistic theology had convinced her that silence was faithfulness and suffering was obedience. Together, Leslie and Jennifer unpack how distorted church teaching, spiritual manipulation, and deeply ingrained beliefs about submission kept Jennifer loyal, silent, and stuck — and how God's persistent grace, honest counseling, and the courage to get curious finally led her into genuine freedom. If you have ever been told that your pain does not count because there are no visible bruises, or that a good Christian woman simply tries harder and prays more, this episode is for you. Key Takeaways Legalism Can Make Abuse Invisible Jennifer spent 36 years in a destructive marriage without naming it as abuse — not because the signs were not there, but because every church message she received redirected the problem back to her. She was told she was not submissive enough, not prayerful enough, not attending the right women's conference. When she finally completed a diagnostic questionnaire from Leslie's book and scored 35 out of a possible range that flagged serious destruction at even a score of five, the word "abusive" became undeniable. The painful truth is that when theology is used to silence a woman rather than protect her, it becomes a weapon — and recognizing that distinction is often the first step toward freedom. Allowing Someone to Sin Against You Is Not Godly Submission One of the most transformative moments in Jennifer's journey came when her counselor said something that stopped her cold: if you are not setting any boundaries and allowing your husband to face no consequences, you are allowing him to sin against you and against God. That reframe — from helpless victim to someone who actually held a measure of agency — changed everything for Jennifer. She had believed that enduring mistreatment was faithfulness. She began to understand that voluntarily removing herself from the path of ongoing harm was an act of stewardship, not rebellion. As Leslie reminds us, there is suffering you cannot control, and then there is suffering you are choosing not to resist. God does not ask us to be complicit in our own destruction. Knowing Who You Are in Christ Is the Foundation of Every Boundary When Jennifer began to face pushback — being called a liberal feminist, watching friends disappear, losing the approval of her pastor and church community — the one anchor that held her was a simple handout she had long given to other women: a list of who you are in Christ, drawn straight from Scripture. She started reading it for herself. Understanding that she was the apple of God's eye, fearfully and wonderfully made, pursued by a Shepherd who left the 99 to find her — that knowledge slowly became more authoritative than anyone else's opinion of her choices. Leslie echoes this with a stunning quote she recently encountered in her own study: "Help me to believe the truth about myself, Lord, no matter how beautiful it is." When you let another person determine your worth, you are standing on quicksand. Your identity in Christ is the only ground solid enough to build a new life on. Curiosity Is What Moves You From Certainty Into Freedom Jennifer's awakening did not come from a dramatic confrontation — it came from getting curious. She started attending a Bible study outside her church. She began reading Scripture in fresh translations and looking at the original Greek and Hebrew. She started asking questions that her church had always treated as dangerous. Leslie names this beautifully: the church Jennifer was in was built on certainty — a closed system that punished questions. But curiosity is how we grow, how we learn, and how the Word of God comes alive. If you have been told for years that you already know everything you need to know, and that asking questions means you are weak in faith, this episode is a gentle invitation to start asking anyway. Freedom Is Bigger Than You Think It Is Jennifer describes the other side of her journey not just as relief, but as expansion. She compares the women she counsels to acorns that were designed to become oak trees — crammed into tiny pots and criticized for failing to look like tulips. For years, Jennifer did religion. She attended every service, taught Sunday school, led women's groups — and stayed small, silent, and shrinking. Freedom, she has discovered, is not simply the absence of an
You Don't Have to Heal Alone: Why Community Is Essential in a Destructive Relationship Have you ever sat in a church pew, heard a message about forgiveness or submission, and walked away feeling more trapped than before — wondering if something was deeply wrong with you for still feeling unsafe? You are not alone, and this episode is for you. Leslie sits down with Kelly Yazzie, our community manager in Conquer, for a raw and deeply honest conversation about why belonging to a safe, faith-based community is not a luxury for women in destructive relationships — it is a lifeline. Together they explore the scriptures that have been misused to keep women silent and stuck, how to hold onto a good God when the system fails you, and why real transformation only happens when information is met with courageous, supported practice. If you have been burned by community before, if you are questioning God's goodness in the middle of an unjust situation, or if you are simply exhausted from trying to figure this out alone, this conversation will meet you exactly where you are. Key Takeaways Misapplied Scripture Has Kept Too Many Women Stuck — and That Is Not God's Heart Verses about forgiveness, mercy, and love covering sin have been pulled out of context in ways that pressure women to protect their abusive husbands from consequences and silence their own experience. Kelly unpacks Ephesians 5:11 — "Take no part in the worthless deeds of evil and darkness; instead, expose them" — alongside Matthew 3:8 and Proverbs 28 to show that God does not call us to prop up unrepentant sin. Untangling forgiveness from reconciliation, and learning to watch for fruit of genuine repentance rather than words alone, is one of the most liberating shifts a woman in a destructive relationship can make. As Kelly states plainly: an apology without change is only manipulation. You Are the Steward of You — And That Is Not Selfishness, It Is Faithfulness One of the most important truths in this episode is that no pastor, elder, counselor, or husband holds authority over your own welfare. Drawing from the sobering story in First Kings 13 — where a man of God is sidetracked by the counsel of another who claimed to speak for God — Kelly and Leslie remind women that others do not live in your home, and they do not live with the results of their counsel. You are the expert of your own situation. Learning to hear God's voice directly, trusting your God-given intuition, and reclaiming ownership of your own life is not rebellion; it is spiritual maturity and faithfulness to the person God created you to be. When God Doesn't Fix It: Separating the Facts from the Story When a protection order is denied despite evidence of abuse, when a custody battle is lost by a mother who did everything right, the anguish is real — and so is the temptation to write a story about what that means about God. Leslie and Kelly walk through the critical practice of distinguishing the facts of a situation from the story we tell ourselves about why it happened. Asking "why did God do this?" often leads us into the same trap as Job's friends — assigning blame and shame where neither belongs. The more life-giving question is: what do I need from this? Where can I grow? How is God meeting me here? God is light; there is no darkness in Him at all, even when circumstances are painfully dark. Community Is Where Transformation Actually Happens Information alone — no matter how biblical, how wise, or how perfectly taught — does not produce transformation. It is the practice, the support, the application inside a safe relational space that changes a woman from the inside out. Kelly describes how women in Conquer learn to use their voice, try new boundaries, share their failures without shame, celebrate their wins without apology, and eventually turn around to support someone just a few steps behind them. Relational trauma is healed in relationship, and a community where your humanity is held with both truth and grace is not a nice addition to healing — it is central to it. You Are Not Too Broken, Too Much, or Too Late For the woman who has been burned by a Christian community before — excluded, silenced, or judged — Kelly offers a direct and tender word: your voice is powerful, your boundaries are courageous, and your healing is worth fighting for. You are not simply a helpmate or a role to fill. You are, as Kelly grounds it in Scripture, an ezer kenegdo — a warrior partner made in the image of God. The Conquer community exists to be the kind of space where that truth becomes lived experience, not just information on a page. If today's conversation stirred something in you — a longing to be truly known, a hunger for a community that holds both biblical truth and your real, hard story with equal care — we want to invite you in
Not Aware Enough or Doesn't Care Enough? Dr. George Simon on Character Disturbance and What You Can Control Have you ever walked away from a conversation with your husband feeling like you are the one who is losing your mind — even though you know something is deeply wrong? That disorientation is not a personal failing. According to today's guest, it is often the most reliable signal that something far more serious than a communication problem or personality clash is at work. In this powerful conversation, Leslie sits down with Dr. George Simon — internationally recognized authority on manipulation and character disturbance, and the man whose groundbreaking work first gave the world a name for gaslighting — to bring you the clarity so many women have been searching for. You will walk away understanding why character matters more than diagnosis, why confusion is a warning sign rather than a flaw, and what it actually looks like to love yourself and others well when you are living with someone whose character is deeply misaligned with love. Key Takeaways Character Disturbance Is Not the Same as a Mental Health Diagnosis — and the Difference Changes Everything A person dealing with a genuine mental health condition, such as bipolar disorder, will typically respond to consequences with remorse, seek accountability, and cooperate with help. A character-disturbed person, by contrast, does not want to change — they like how they operate. Dr. Simon explains that the tactics most therapists and pastors were trained to use were designed for a completely different kind of struggle, and applying them to character disturbance is not only ineffective but can cause real harm. Understanding this distinction frees you from the exhausting and impossible task of trying to fix what only the other person has the power and responsibility to address. Confusion in the Relationship Is a Warning Sign, Not Your Weakness Dr. Simon introduced the concept now widely known as gaslighting long before it entered everyday language, and he explains here exactly how it works on the mind. When a manipulative person acts with apparent conviction — minimizing what they have done, blaming you for provoking it, and reframing reality with intensity and certainty — they create genuine doubt in someone who is already unsure of their own worth. The key insight is this: you are not confused because something is wrong with you. You are confused because a skilled manipulator is working very hard to make you feel that way. Judging behavior on its own merits, independent of any excuse offered, is the first and most grounding step toward reclaiming your clarity. They See — But in Their Hearts, They Still Disagree One of the most liberating truths in this entire conversation is Dr. Simon's clear-eyed statement: it is not that character-disturbed people do not see what they are doing. They see it. The problem is not awareness — it is that they do not yet care enough to change. You cannot think your way, plead your way, or love your way into producing that change in another person. Real change, if it comes at all, happens in the present moment through consistent, concrete behavior — not apologies, not tears, and not promises. Leslie reflects on how this understanding protects women from being misled by performances of remorse that have no roots in genuine character transformation. Loving Yourself Is Not Selfishness — It Is the Starting Point of All Real Love Both Leslie and Dr. Simon return to this truth throughout the conversation: you cannot love another person well if you do not first know your own worth and act to protect it. Dr. Simon connects this directly to the command of Jesus — love as I have loved you — and challenges the misreading of Christian submission that leaves women spiritually equipped to endure harm but not to refuse it. Enabling someone else's destructive behavior is not love; it is fear dressed in the language of faithfulness. Withdrawing from demeaning treatment, setting a firm limit on what you will participate in, and stewarding your own dignity are not uncharitable acts. They are the foundation of any love that is rooted in truth rather than self-erasure. The Church Has Work to Do — and So Do You Dr. Simon and Leslie speak honestly about why churches have been so slow to recognize and respond well to character disturbance and abuse. An over-emphasis on preserving the institution of marriage, patriarchal structures that diminish the voice and agency of women, and a focus on correct theology over Christlike character have all contributed to environments where harm goes unaddressed and victims are pressured to stay silent. The answer, as Dr. Simon puts it plainly, is more Jesus — not more rules, not more labels, but a serious and sustained attention to the character and manner of the One we say we follow. For the
Why Rejection Hits So Hard and How to Stop Letting It Define You Have you ever been blindsided by a betrayal so complete that it did not just shatter your marriage — it shattered the story you believed about yourself? One moment you thought you knew who you were, who he was, and who God was to you. And then the truth came out, and suddenly nothing felt certain anymore. In this episode, Leslie sits down with Emmy Award-winning television producer, author, and Chief Creative Officer of Joyce Meyer Ministries, Ginger Stache, co-author of the new book Healing the Wounds of Rejection. Ginger shares with remarkable honesty how the discovery of her husband's long-hidden pornography addiction brought her to her knees — not only in her marriage, but in her identity and her faith. Together, Leslie and Ginger unpack the specific lies rejection plants in a woman's heart, why feeling the pain of rejection is not weakness but proof you were made for love, and how God meets women in the darkness with healing they never saw coming. Key Takeaways Rejection Attacks Your Identity, Not Just Your Relationship When Ginger discovered her husband's pornography addiction, she was not only stunned by the betrayal — she was stunned by how quickly it rewrote her story about herself. The questions came fast: What did I do wrong? Why am I not enough? Am I even lovable? Leslie points out that this is exactly what rejection does in a destructive relationship — it does not stay in the marriage, it moves into the marrow of who you believe you are. The critical first step is recognizing that what he chose is not a verdict on your worth. It is not a statement about you. The Lies Rejection Tells Are Predictable — and They Can Be Named and Refused Ginger identifies the most common lies rejection whispers: I will never be accepted. There is something fundamentally wrong with me. I cannot become who God made me to be because I am too broken. The key distinction she draws is between being rejected — which happens to every human being, including Jesus himself — and living rejected, which means allowing those lies to become part of your identity. Naming the lie is the first act of resistance. Replacing it with the truth of God's word is how the healing begins, one lie at a time. Feeling the Pain of Rejection Is Not Weakness — It Is What It Means to Be Human One of the most powerful moments in this conversation is Ginger's confession that she was ashamed of how hard rejection knocked her down — because she thought her faith made her stronger than that. Research confirms that the brain processes social rejection through the same pain pathways as a broken bone. God created you for love and connection, which means the ache of rejection is not a character flaw. It is the cost of being someone who loves. Leslie adds her own story of unexpectedly sobbing in a parking lot after being turned away at a pickleball court — and recognizing it as an old childhood wound asking to be seen and healed. Self-compassion, not self-criticism, is what opens the door. The Story of Leah Tells Us What Healing Actually Looks Like Ginger and Leslie turn to the story of Leah in Genesis 29 as one of the most honest and hope-filled pictures of what it looks like to move from rejection to rest. Married to a man who openly preferred her sister, Leah spent years trying to earn love through her children. But by her fourth son, something shifted. She stopped saying, Surely he will love me now, and said instead, This time I will praise the Lord. Healing did not look like Jacob finally choosing her. It looked like Leah choosing God as her source — finding that his love was not conditional on what her husband did or did not give her. That same shift is available to you. You Have a Choice — and Reclaiming It Is Where Healing Starts One of the most empowering threads running through this conversation is the call to reclaim your ability to choose in the middle of circumstances you did not choose. You did not choose his addiction. You did not choose his betrayal. But you can choose whether to believe the lie or the truth. You can choose faith over feelings that feel more real right now. You can choose to risk loving again because, as Ginger says, not loving anyone is a far worse fate than being hurt while loving. Leslie draws on the story of Joseph — thrown into slavery and into prison by rejection at every turn — as a biblical witness to the truth that rejection does not have to define you. The path forward begins with that one small, courageous choice. Personal Invitation If this conversation is stirring something deep in you — if you recognize the lies Ginger described, if you have been carrying the weight of rejection in your body, your identity, and your faith for longer than you want to admit — you do not have to keep doing this alone. Leslie's Walking in Core Strength communit
Have you ever caught yourself thinking, "Maybe this time he really means it" — and then hated yourself for thinking it again? You are not weak. You are not foolish. You are caught in something far more powerful than willpower alone. In this deeply honest and compassionate episode, Leslie Vernick names two forces that work together to keep women stuck in destructive relationships: Hopium — the counterfeit hope dressed in spiritual language — and the trauma bond that keeps feeding it. You will walk away understanding what is actually happening in your mind, your body, and your faith, and you will leave with a clear framework, real questions to ask yourself, and the courage to trade a false hope for a genuine one. Key Takeaways Hopium Is Not Biblical Hope. Hopium sounds like faith. It uses words like trust, submission, forgiveness, and patience — but it places all the weight of your husband's choices onto your faith. True biblical hope, the kind found in Psalm 33, is rooted in God's character alone, not in a husband's potential or his latest promise. Leslie draws a clear and important line: God can change a heart, but God never forces a heart to change. Confusing those two things will crush you. Biblical hope gives you the courage to face reality; Hopium asks you to deny it. Trauma Bonds Are Real, and They Are Not Your Fault A trauma bond is a specific kind of toxic attachment created by three conditions working together: an imbalance of power, intermittent reinforcement (the cycle of warmth and cruelty that hijacks your nervous system), and coercive control, which in Christian settings often includes the weaponizing of Scripture. Leslie explains that trauma bonds are frequently mislabeled as godly virtues — long-suffering, loyalty, unconditional love — which is precisely what makes them so hard to name and so hard to leave. Even the Israelites, after escaping slavery, idealized Egypt and wanted to go back. That is not weakness; that is a predictable, understandable response to long-term trauma. Hopium and Trauma Bonds Feed Each Other These are not two separate problems. The trauma bond creates the neurological and emotional pull toward him regardless of what he does; Hopium gives that pull a spiritual costume. Instead of "I cannot stop wanting him even though he hurts me," it becomes "I believe God will restore this marriage." Instead of "my nervous system is hijacked," it becomes "I just need more faith." Leslie uses the disciples on the road to Emmaus as a powerful anchor: the hope they expected died, but Jesus was still walking right beside them. Your marriage may not become what you prayed for, and that grief is real — but God has not abandoned you. He offers his presence, his truth, and a different kind of hope than the one you expected. How to Tell Whether Change Is Real Leslie answers six listener questions with remarkable clarity, including the one so many women are afraid to ask: how do I know if his change is genuine? She introduces the framework of old history versus new history — what patterns defined the past, and what consistent new patterns are you seeing now, not just during the honeymoon phase and not just when he fears consequences? Genuine change looks like humility without minimizing, ownership without blaming, patience with your healing, and changed behavior that persists even when no one is watching. Using the language of change without the fruit of change is not change — it is manipulation. The HOPE Framework: A Practical Path Forward Leslie closes with a simple, memorable framework to help you take your next step. Honesty: what is actually true right now, what is the real pattern, what is the real impact on you and your children? Ownership: what is his work to do, and what is yours, and what have you been carrying that does not belong to you? Protection: what needs protecting right now: your body, your mind, your children, your finances, your faith? Empowered next step: what is one wise decision you can make today, whether he changes or not? You do not need his transformation to begin your own. Personal Invitation If this episode stirred something in you — if you have been trying harder and praying harder and still feeling crazy, powerless, or trapped — I want you to know there is a next step waiting for you. I am hosting a free webinar called the Four Lies that Make Christian Women Feel Crazy and Powerless in Their Destructive Relationships. We are going to unpack exactly why these beliefs sound so biblical, how they are shaping the way you respond, and what Scripture actually offers instead. This is for the woman who loves God and loves her marriage but is starting to wonder if something has gone deeply wrong. Come and find out what is really true. Register here: https://leslievernick.com/lies Closing Encouragement
From Crazy-Making to Clarity: One Woman's Journey Out of a Destructive Marriage What do you do when you cry out to God at two in the morning — not because you are praying, but because you are too afraid to go to sleep? That is exactly where Shelley found herself: a musician, a mother, a woman of deep faith living in Australia with a vision impairment, and a marriage that had quietly unraveled into something dangerous and demeaning. In this episode, Leslie sits down with Shelley to hear the story she could not tell for years — the moment she finally named what was happening, the community that reminded her she was not crazy, and the God who showed up in the most practical and tender ways imaginable. If you have been told to pray harder, submit more, and trust that God will fix it, this conversation will meet you exactly where you are and point you toward something better. Key Takeaways The Moment You Realize It Is Not Just a Hard Marriage For Shelley, the turning point came wrapped in a birthday gift — a beautiful purple shirt with a Proverbs 31 verse on it. When she asked her husband why he chose it, he told her he thought she needed a reminder to be kind to their children. That single moment cracked open years of confusion. Looking back, she recognized a pattern: extravagant public gifts followed by being called high maintenance, and birthdays that ended in tears. If you have been dismissing a pattern as immaturity or spiritual immaturity, Shelley's story gently invites you to look more honestly at what the pattern actually reveals. You Cannot Conquer Your Marriage Until You Conquer Your Own Blind Spots One of the most courageous and unexpected things Shelley shared was her discovery inside the Conquer community of the drama triangle — and her own role in it. She had been rescuing, managing, and attempting to control her husband's behavior as a way of managing her own fear. As she put it, she realized she was in Conquer not to conquer her marriage, but to conquer her own pride, blind spots, and reactions. This is the kind of honest, growth-oriented work that goes beyond surviving — it is the work of becoming. As Leslie reminds us, being a true victim does not mean we have no work of our own to do. Healing work and growth work are both necessary. You Are Not Crazy — You Need Community That Understands Shelley described the relief of finding a group of women walking a similar path not simply as encouragement but as sanity. Talking to a therapist every two weeks was not enough. She needed women who were wrestling the same questions with God, some two steps ahead of her and some two steps behind. The isolation of a destructive marriage — especially inside a church community that offers only submission and prayer — can make a woman doubt her own perception of reality. Being seen and heard by women who understand is not a luxury. It is part of the path back to clarity. God Provides Through People — Even When the Church Has Failed You Shelley's exit from her marriage was not clean or simple. She faced a three-year property battle, children who chose to stay with their father, emergency housing challenges, and a previous church that told her to submit. And yet, God placed person after person in her path — a domestic violence support worker's wife, a church that paid her rent, a rental manager who went out of her way, a prayer meeting friend who became her disability support worker and sat with her through her final court appearance. Shelley's story is a living reminder that God's provision rarely looks the way we expect, and it almost always arrives through the hands and feet of ordinary people. Your Life Has a Purpose Beyond the Role You Were Robbed Of Shelley is now pursuing her long-deferred dream of recording her original songs — music born from the middle of the painful years, written to reach other women still caught in the confusion. Her reflection is worth sitting with: she had been waiting all these years for someone else to make room in their calendar for her dreams. She has decided to stop waiting. If you have spent years making yourself smaller to keep the peace, Shelley's invitation to you is a generous and courageous one — there is only one you, and no one can represent Jesus to this world the way that you can. You deserve to reach your full potential. Personal Invitation If Shelley's story stirred something in you — if you recognized yourself in the confusion, the isolation, the spiritual wrestling — you do not have to keep navigating this alone. We've created a resource designed specifically for women in your situation. Get the Quickstart Guide: https://leslievernick.com/guide You are not crazy, and you are not alone. What you are living through is real, and naming it is not betrayal — it i
Relationship Truth: Unfiltered is a place for people of faith to find real answers when it comes to destructive relationships. Leslie Vernick is the author of seven books, including the best-selling, ”The Emotionally Destructive Marriage.” She has dedicated her life to cutting through the religious confusion and teaching women to grow in their relationships: with God, with themselves, and with others.
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Relationship Truth: Unfiltered publishes biweekly. Our AI generates a summary within hours of each new episode.
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